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The Law Library: “Them” and “Us”?

17/5/2016

 
DUNCAN WALLACE
Volume 9, Issue 11
Last week De Minimis published the article “MLS Students Welcome Library Changes”. It was a satirical piece which discussed the recent renovations to level 3 of the law library. The changes were made, it said, “in an effort to better accommodate the primary users of the Law Library - commerce students”.
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This isn’t the first time that non-law student use of the law library has been discussed in De Minimis. In 2014, in the article “SNAILS Invade Law School”, SNAILS (Students Not Actually In Law School) were defined as “from diverse backgrounds”, in the “possession of a calculator or macroeconomics textbook” and carrying the “scent of teenager”. The racial connotations behind these statements were reinforced by the proposal that “we could send the SNAILS over to the traffic island outside the law building for processing to ensure only the worthiest are granted access.”

Non-law student use of the law library is in no way constrained to commerce students. The reason that “SNAILS” are so strongly associated with commerce students is, let’s be frank, because of the strong association of commerce students with students from an Asian background.

A number of MLS students of Asian descent have voiced their discomfort at last week’s article.

One MLS student, Allison Fong (who, readers should note, the author knows personally), commented, “I don’t know if it’s a correct assumption, but when I saw the word ‘commerce student’ I thought immediately that it was directed at Asian students. It’s just not right. If it’s not directed at Asian students, then what else could it be? We know how the stereotype goes. There are a lot of international Asian students who are taking a commerce degree.”

The association is, every now and then, made explicit. Last year the current LSS Equality Officer, JJ Kim, documented a conversation he overheard between two law students at spring social. One student was told, “I’m just saying! You’re alright man, you’re not a part of them, you’re like a white Asian… but some of these Asians you see around the building, I can’t bloody stand them!”  

Australia has one of the highest proportion of international students in the world, education being one of Australia's top 4 exports after iron ore, natural gas and coal. By far the highest number of international students are from China.

Universities see international students as one of their primary sources of revenue: one of the University of Melbourne’s “targets” to increase revenue was recently stated as being to “broaden the base of international enrolments”(see here, p 13). Graycar, in his paper “Racism and the Tertiary Student Experience in Australia”, writes that when education is treated as a consumer activity, in which cash is exchanged for a qualification, rather than as a holistic experience, then this inevitably leads to systemic exploitation (see here, p 10). Resources aren’t devoted to ensuring international student well-being; rather the focus is on extracting as much cash from them as possible.

Exploitation is experienced by international students in a great number of ways. According to a recent survey of more than 200 international students by the union United Voice, for example, 60 per cent earned less than the national minimum wage ($16.37 an hour), and a quarter of those surveyed received $10 or less an hour (see here).

International students also face problems accessing safe, adequate and affordable housing; problems with personal safety and security; problems accessing physical and mental health services, including information and health services for women; and privacy problems (see here).

As JJ Kim recognised in his article, the systemic problems arising out of seeing international students as not much more than dollar signs do not have easy solutions. What we can do, however, “is control our reaction, attitude and behaviour.” We should be careful to exercise that control - the “negative feelings towards SNAILS subconsciously translates into negative feelings towards Asians.”

This is particularly important at a time when economic problems are leading to an increase in nationalist sentiments globally. Immigrants are being used as scapegoats for the problems caused by the financialisation of the economy, which has led to almost unfathomable levels of inequality.  

The massive following Donald Trump has, for example, is due, first, to his protectionist economic policy targeted at increasing domestic employment and, second, to his hateful stance on immigrants – his idea for a “Great Wall of Trump” and his proposal for a blanket ban on Muslim immigrants (see here).
 
The MLS library is an interesting place for this same dynamic to be playing out. We should be wary. How would international students undertaking the commerce degree have felt reading the De Minimis article last week?

Of course, the law student area is the law student area. But should we feel entitled to the whole building? Should we indulge the feeling that “they” are using “our” stuff?

As Allison Fong stated, “Immediately when I saw the word commerce, I thought back to [JJ Kim’s] article, and my first instinct was that it was directed at this ‘Asian issue’ which is just a bit disappointing if people are thinking of it as an issue. I think the whole point of that article is that it shouldn’t matter if they’re law students. We should all be included.”

Duncan Wallace is a third-year JD student and Chief Editor of De Minimis. 

​The rest of this week's issue:
  • So You Want To Be A Criminal Lawyer? An Interview With Jessie Smith
  • Wine, Cheese, And A Serving Of Culture Shock
  • On The Record
  • Equity Uncle

​Articles related to this:
  • MLS Students Welcome Library Changes
  • SNAILS: It’s not a Race
  • SNAILS Invade the Law School ​
PCGM
17/5/2016 04:25:14 pm

PCGM

Lawly
17/5/2016 04:57:47 pm

I’m not really sure what the point of this article is, but is it really a ‘stereotype’ that there are lots of Asian international students who are studying commerce? I would have thought you would just call that a fact.

Not all Asians in the law building are international students or commerce students. But when you go to level 4 of the law library and observe the books and calculators on the tables, it’s very clear that very few people are studying law. I would estimate 70%+ are studying commerce. And the vast majority of them happen to be Asian. Is it racist or otherwise derogatory to make this observation?

‘How would international [sic] students undertaking the commerce degree have felt reading the De Minimis article last week?’

They would probably be happy to read that there’s now more space in the library for them.

‘Of course, the law student area is the law student area. But should we feel entitled to the whole building? Should we indulge the feeling that “they” are using “our” stuff?’

Well, commerce students do have their own libraries which they are choosing not to use when they come to the law library. I think it’s pretty uncontentious that the law library is overcrowded, and yes, I would argue that law students have a greater entitlement to the facilities of the law building than non-law students (just as commerce students have a greater entitlement to the facilities of the commerce building than non-commerce students, etc).

Duncan
17/5/2016 06:41:40 pm

I didn't cite this explicitly in the article because I didn't have time to research it properly; but there's anecdotal evidence, backed up by the fact that international students have precarious accomodation arrangements (which I did cite in the article), that international students use libraries extensively because there's often no place else to go. Other libraries are also overcrowded.

The point is if we indulge the idea of 'them' vs 'us' then the law library is just another place where people in precarious circumstances will feel unwelcome. Again, anecdotal, but today I heard "economics students" referred to as "cockroaches". As I detailed in the article, international students are heavily exploited. Are we going to let ourselves use such language and such attitudes against an already marginalised group? The article is simply a warning about letting ourselves form attitudes which tend towards normalising sometimes highly explicit racist language (i.e. racism)

Bob
18/5/2016 10:20:09 am

I suppose it simply seems intuitive that the primary purpose of the law library should be to serve law students. If the issue is one of limited physical space than everything else is irrelevant really.

You seem very uncomfortable with an "us" vs "them paradigm, but how far are you going to extend this? Would you be happy with a large volume of students from other universities coming into the law library to study? How about members of the public? Would this be exclusionary to deny them entry?

ernie k
18/5/2016 10:23:32 am

exactly.
was going to rant, but you've said everything that needed to be said.
nicely put.

Ayu
17/5/2016 07:33:23 pm

I have actually written to the Dean about the occupancy of the law building by non-law students. She acknowledges that this concern is timely and that there will be a new law student only space on the mezzanine open in the second semester.

I don't actually think that this issue is as concerned with race (although race becomes an incidental consideration for some people, unfortunate as it is) as it is about the frustrations that law students have with not being able to access space they logically understand to be theirs: after all, the law building is called the law building and it is natural to assume that the name gives rise to some sort of entitlement to, for example, the use of the building.

Go Ayu
17/5/2016 07:57:32 pm

DeMinimus should have a like button.

Sarah
17/5/2016 08:06:09 pm

Thank you for writing this - being from an Asian background and having done commerce as an undergrad, I did feel a great amount of discomfort reading last week's article, but wasn't quite brave, nor eloquent, enough to put it into words.

Anon
17/5/2016 08:33:26 pm

So, despite paying over $100,000 for a law degree, and presumably for access to the whole of the law building, I should be happy not being able to find a study space anywhere in the building because, in the interests of equality and fairness, international students and non-law students deserve the space more?

Good to see De Minimis standing up for the rights of law students! Though I guess inability to access study spaces in the law building isn't as important an issue as inability to access law ball tickets.

Jacob (Managing Ed)
17/5/2016 08:54:41 pm

De Minimis publishes anything that is not defamatory or grossly offensive and is of sufficient quality. Its an open platform that any student can use to voice their views - as we keep reiterating (see link below). If you have an opinion on the issue, you should take your own advice and "stand up for the rights of law students" by submitting an article.

See here for further details: http://www.deminimis.com.au/home/de-minimis-an-open-call-for-submissions

Anon
17/5/2016 09:00:24 pm

Not interested in having an online anon argument with you.

As a serious question, it says Duncan Wallace is Chief Editor of De Minimis. Does that not make this an editorial and the view of De Minimis ?

Anon
17/5/2016 09:18:15 pm

"Or you can just write snide anonymous comments, but I don't know how far it'll get you".

Very quick to edit that totally unprofessional statement, in your self-stated capacity as "Managing Editor", I see.

Duncan
17/5/2016 09:02:26 pm

With few exceptions, De Minimis doesn't take positions on issues. I wrote this in my personal capacity.

I'm not saying space isn't a problem. I'm saying that we should be wary constructing an 'us' vs 'them' against fellow students. As I've detailed in previous articles, the university is exploiting its students generally: (http://www.deminimis.com.au/home/are-university-rankings-leading-to-massive-student-exploitation).

By blaming other students and encouraging a discourse which, I've argued, leads to prejudice against one of the most exploited groups on campus, we're effectively engaging in a racist, Donald Trump-type politics.

Disappointed
17/5/2016 08:56:42 pm

"A number of MLS students of Asian descent have voiced their discomfort at last week’s article."

Actually, you have given details of only *one* student's discomfort, namely, Allison Fong's.

I also fail to see how the issue of exploitation of Int'l students in the areas of housing, wages, etc. (which are extremely important) are relevant to overcrowding in Law spaces.

You seem to imply that overcrowding in these spaces is fine, and law students (who are paying hefty fees to use such spaces) should simply get over it, and say nothing, so as not to cause offence to commerce students.

The fact that many commerce students are of Asian descent is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand - being, overcrowding, and the disadvantages this poses to law students.

Commerce students at Melbourne University have their own building. Their own huge building. With many study spaces. Calling out commerce students who use our space, and not their own, to our disadvantage, is justified.

This article is cringeworthy and embarrassing.

Duncan
17/5/2016 09:05:26 pm

JJ Kim, LSS Equality officer, along with a couple of other students also got into contact with me. I just happened to only quote Fong.

Regarding your other commments, I'll repeat what I said above: I'm not saying space isn't a problem. I'm saying that we should be wary constructing an 'us' vs 'them' against fellow students. As I've detailed in previous articles, the university is exploiting its students generally: (http://www.deminimis.com.au/home/are-university-rankings-leading-to-massive-student-exploitation).

By blaming other students and encouraging a discourse which, I've argued, leads to prejudice against one of the most exploited groups on campus, we're effectively engaging in a racist, Donald Trump-type politics.

ANON
18/5/2016 10:33:36 am

aren't you dating alison fong?
shouldn't someone in your position perhaps acknowledge that in the article somewhere?

Nate
17/5/2016 08:57:42 pm

Maybe it's my privilege as an Arts student, but until yesterday I was completely ignorant of the stereotype regarding people of Asian ethnicities and their association with the Bachelor of Commerce degree here at Melb U.

However, the image chosen for the article is actually a picture of the line to get into the library at Nanjing University of Finance and Economics. Even without knowing/googling this, it looks like China based on the smog and architecture. The choice of image may have primed people to detect racism in an article that genuinely was devoid of racism.

Commerce student use different book to law students. They use calculators. They usually aren't found weeping over their textbooks. They SMILE sometimes. You don't need to rely on race to get a good idea whether or not someone is a law student or a commerce student. It's unfair to impose the readers' stereotypes about commerce and race onto the the author.

As for the rest, Dunc did a great job summarizing some of the issues facing intl students and I couldn't agree more.

G.
17/5/2016 09:36:13 pm

Isn't it amazing how when you're a Leftist every issue must be viewed through a lense of racism and discrimination are the default and sole the cause of the world's ills.

Maybe the reason Leftists don't study commerce and economics in great numbers is because facts and figures don't work well with their twisted reality.

This article infers conclusions where there is none, cites anecdotal evidence as authoritative despite the very real prospect it was fabricated, and treats those who question why they pay for a law degree when other students dominate the space they've paid for.

What a sham

Duncan
17/5/2016 09:56:09 pm

Fair enough.

Incidentally, I did a masters in economics and I like accounting. Go figure!?

Henry HL
18/5/2016 12:53:20 am

This article is very needed. I've caught myself racially profiling people to be angry at "overcrowding in the law school" about before. Being honest with yourself now, you've probably done so too. Anyone who pays attention to who gets asked to show their ID on level 3 should be aware that some pretty blatant racial profiling gets done by the security guards too. Ultimately, there's always a physical space to study somewhere in the law school. I hope there will always be a cultural space to do so too.

anon
18/5/2016 09:40:23 am

Leaving aside the racial issues...there is, after all, a lack of study space for law students. Yesterday I couldn't find a single spot on all 3 levels of the library. The JD study area was absolutely packed - people were studying on the floor! The communal areas were packed...and people were studying on the floor. Went to an empty classroom out of desperation, got kicked out in 15min because there was a class on. Went to the SPot, and as expected, every nook and cranny was filled. I had to go home and watch game of thrones instead! It wasn't a productive day!

Like, come on, I have an exam next week. Law students should really get first dibs on study spaces in their OWN building especially around exam time?! An entire floor at the library should be reserved for law students. No racial agendas here. I just want some space to study.

ANON
18/5/2016 10:59:27 am

Isn't the contributor dating their "source", Ms Fong?
Wouldn't an acknowledgement of this fact - especially given that the contributor is the Chief Editor - be more transparent?
I expect more from our prestigious De Minimis.

Duncan
18/5/2016 11:15:25 am

Ha fair enough. Yes I know Allison well. I should have said.

Full disclosure - I knew everyone that contacted me about last week's article before they had contacted me. I suppose that was partly why they contacted me. I expect that's not a surprise to most people - the law school isn't that big and I've been here for almost 3 years.

ANON
18/5/2016 11:58:03 am

It's not up to your readership to be abreast of who you're dating, or who you "know well".
You should just apologise and make the amendment, not try and justify yourself.
It's pretty unprofessional.

Duncan
18/5/2016 12:16:11 pm

Yeah true. De Minimis has been going down hill for a while now: http://www.deminimis.com.au/home/corruption-rife-within-de-minimis

ANON
18/5/2016 12:32:26 pm

You still can't do it, can you?
You were wrong. You should just give an apology without qualification.
It's not difficult.

Duncan
18/5/2016 01:42:39 pm

Rectified. I am sorry for not making that clear in the original article.

ANON
18/5/2016 12:00:14 pm

HA!
Since when does De Minimis publish pillow talk?
Unprofessional indeed.

ANON
18/5/2016 12:50:27 pm

having recently graduated, I am very glad that I no longer have to deal with this problem. For 2/3 of my JD I resorted to studying on the TINY desk that I was able to squeeze into my TINY room in my noisy share house because there simply weren't any spare seats in the Law School library.

The vast majority of seats were occupied by students from other faculties, particularly commerce. The majority of these students are of Asian descent (note: this is a fact, not racism).

It is unfair that law students who pay big $$ and need the resources available in the LAW LIBRARY cannot get a seat to the advantage of commerce students (who, statistically, are predominantly of Asian descent).

Anti-dentite
18/5/2016 01:14:09 pm

I've seen a few Dental students using desks in the law school as well. And I didn't come to that conclusion based on any characteristic other than the fact that they're wearing a hoodie emblazoned with MELBOURNE DENTAL SCHOOL.

On another note, it's all well and good that they're allegedly planning on turning the mezzanine level into another law student area or whatever, but why is the capacity of the law student area reduced in the meantime? It's an additional insult after the law student centre was removed. And if you're graduating mid year, you get to suffer the inconvenience without ever seeing these grand plans come to fruition.

Stay Classy, Commenters
18/5/2016 03:58:07 pm

Content of the article aside, I'd like to criticise some of the comments made in this thread.

Personally I don't really care how the author knows one of the people whose perspective was drawn upon for this article.

Some people might think it poses a serious ethical issue, but that has not been the flavour of the commenting. It's closer to high school level trash talking - petty and puerile.

Keep it civil, eh?

CA
18/5/2016 06:09:54 pm

Yes, exactly. The relationship between the author and source is largely irrelevant here, and doesn't diminish either opinion, or the piece itself.

If you disagree with the argument presented say so, don't attack the author over something so trivial.

Personally, I disagree Duncan. I didn't see the racism, or 'us and them' implications from last weeks article. Maybe because I studied commerce and I'm not an Asian student. I see many white commerce students on level 2 everyday. Sure, there are many international students mainly from Asian countries, but I don't think it's racist to single out commerce students. It is true, commerce students in general like to attend the law building. Part of that is due to how poorly designed the Spot is, with a lack of seating in the building (seriously, there is very little) and the Giblin library also having a tiny amount of seating, the other part is pure selfishness.

Are non-law students an issue? In the level 3 marked law student area it is a massive problem. I hate how they blatantly start looking through their bag right outside the door as if they're going to find their student card any second to get in.

If so many law students are dissatisfied though, why aren't we self-policing? I know we'd like someone else to do our dirty work, but you can always sternly tell a confused student that they're in the wrong area and they'll have to go.

K
18/5/2016 09:13:52 pm

Exactly.

Nick
18/5/2016 06:53:27 pm

How is it any different than if law students couldn't go to Law Ball because Arts students were buying most of the tickets?

Special K
19/5/2016 07:49:31 am

But how do you know they're Arts students? Because they're white? RACIST!

Special K
19/5/2016 07:58:15 am

Note: if you knew they were Arts students because they got the gluten free meal option, then I retract my charge of racism.

Anon
19/5/2016 01:53:57 pm

Decimatio - a form of extreme military discipline used by officers in the Roman Army to punish mutinous or cowardly soldiers in exceptional cases. A cohort selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group cast lots, and the soldier on whom the lot fell was executed by his nine comrades, often by stoning or clubbing.

I recommend we bring in something like this for interlopers.

Anon link
19/5/2016 01:54:21 pm

Decimatio - a form of extreme military discipline used by officers in the Roman Army to punish mutinous or cowardly soldiers in exceptional cases. A cohort selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group cast lots, and the soldier on whom the lot fell was executed by his nine comrades, often by stoning or clubbing.

I recommend we bring in something like this for interlopers.

Anon
19/5/2016 06:10:31 pm

This article and the comments it has generated show that it's time things changed at De Minimis. Whether the staff like it or not De Minimis reflects upon the student body as a whole, and I don't wish to go into interviews with the partners asking what my thoughts are on controversial articles and comments published here.

If De Minimis' staff don't act then I'll ask the faculty to act, and I expect the majority of students will support this.

Henry HL
19/5/2016 08:09:15 pm

In my experience of law firm partners, I'm pretty sure they aren't trawling law school publications got controversial articles to interrogate would-be clerks about.

Anon
20/5/2016 10:56:39 am

I don't think you guys should be so dismissive of this. Sure, it's unlikely a partner would be perusing these comments, but other people sure do.

All it takes is one minor incident over the reservation of a desk on level 4 and we could plausibly see a situation like UQ and the indigenous office splashed over the pages of newspapers.

Just a thought.

ROFLING
20/5/2016 11:56:27 am

Anon, do you really hate the idea of students having an opinion you disagree with THAT MUCH that you would make such a baseless suggestion that it will impinge on your job prospects and threaten to get the publication shut down?

Coming from someone who did a buttload of clerkship interviews, I can assure you that the last thing partners or HR staff are concerned about is what your classmates have said in a student publication. Stick to worrying about your marks, your extracurriculars, your employment history and your ability to work 80 hrs a week and keep De Minimis out of it.

You loathsome troll.

Ben J.
20/5/2016 02:00:57 pm

Anon,

Isn't De Minimis "officially unofficial"? Then the university would have no control over its publication anyway???

Duncan
20/5/2016 02:21:26 pm

At risk of appearing self-indulgent, I predicted your response a year ago:

"...students, disciplined by increasing fees, must increasingly pursue a course which will satisfy employers, thus circumscribing possibilities for students to engage in social critique and radicalism."

http://www.deminimis.com.au/home/melbourne-law-school-and-the-politics-of-education

Although, I have to say, you've taken this to extremes. Not only are **you** not willing to engage in social critique; you're worried that **someone else** somewhere in your vicinity might be doing so.

LOL
19/5/2016 07:48:35 pm

The idea that partners at law firms actively monitor this website and the comments posted is hilarious.

‘Thank you for coming in to this interview Anon. As you know, most of our work is in equity capital markets, IPOs and transnational M&A. Now, first things first, how about those commerce students in the law student study area. Amirite??’

K.
20/5/2016 04:05:18 pm

What an insight into the corporate culture fostered amongst our law firms. Instead of any depth of equality we see the superficial veil of corporate social responsibility lifted to expose the tolerance of racism and bigotry--as long as you have good marks.
This is the very culture which has allowed the corporate world to plunder the collective wealth of our society and entrench inequality. You only have to talk the talk in public, but when provided a sufficient degree of anonymity or obscurity the overwhelmingly white, male prejudices rise to the surface and jettison social justice values.
"So you hold racist, homophobic, transphobic views, but you've got straight H1s? Welcome aboard". "So you're willing to oppress women and people of colour employees in the region to ensure this transnational M&A is successful? Promote that man!".

Lol indeed.

Huh
21/5/2016 08:28:09 am

What are you even talking about? I'm yet to see any racist/homophobic/transphobic material published in DM.

Even if it were, the idea that it would be acceptable for an employer to ask an interviewee about one's views on racism/homophobia or whatever in the context of an interview (to test one's moral purity?) is frightening and absurd. And I say this as a member of the LGBTI community.

Get real
20/5/2016 02:15:06 pm

If we're so concerned about space in the level 3 study area students should stop sitting on one chair and using the one next to them to hold their bag. Your bag can go on the floor.


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        • Issue 4
        • Issue 5
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
        • Issue 8
        • Issue 9
        • Issue 10
        • Issue 11
        • Issue 12
      • Semester 2 (Volume 10) >
        • Issue 1
        • Issue 2
        • Issue 3
        • Issue 4
        • Issue 5
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
        • Issue 8 (Election Issue)
        • Issue 9
        • Issue 10
        • Issue 11
        • Issue 12
        • Issue 13 (test)
    • 2015 >
      • Semester 1 (Volume 7) >
        • Issue 1
        • Issue 2
        • Issue 3
        • Issue 4
        • Issue 5
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
        • Issue 8
        • Issue 9
        • Issue 10
        • Issue 11
      • Semester 2 (Volume 8) >
        • Issue 1
        • Issue 2
        • Issue 3
        • Issue 4
        • Issue 5
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
        • Issue 8
        • Issue 9
        • Issue 10
    • 2014 >
      • Semester 1 (Volume 5) >
        • Issue 1
        • Issue 2
        • Issue 3
        • Issue 4
        • Issue 5
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
      • Semester 2 (Volume 6) >
        • Issue 1
        • Issue 2
        • Issue 3
        • Issue 4
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
        • Issue 10
        • Issue 12
    • 2013 >
      • Issue 1
      • Issue 2
      • Issue 3
      • Issue 4
      • Issue 5
      • Issue 6
    • 2012 >
      • Semester 1 (Volume 1) >
        • Issue 1
        • Issue 2
        • Issue 3
        • Issue 4
        • Issue 5
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
        • Issue 8
        • Issue 9
        • Issue 10
        • Issue 11
        • Issue 12
      • Semester 2 (Volume 2) >
        • Issue 1
        • Issue 2
        • Issue 3
        • Issue 4
        • Issue 5
        • Issue 6
        • Issue 7
        • Issue 8
        • Issue 9
        • Issue 10
        • Issue 11
        • Issue 12