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THE COST OF CLERkSHIPS

15/10/2021

 
A spectre is haunting the MLS – the spectre of clerkships. A delirious aura of exhaustion surely hangs over every law student who has spent weeks writing cover letter after cover letter to law firms they’re not even interested in. If they’re lucky, they get to sit a psychometric test deliberately designed to stress them. If they’re even luckier, they get to sit through an interview trying to explain why they’re interested in a job they’re not interested in. Then, at the end of it all, they are probably going to get an email about the “large number of strong applications this year”, with no idea of how to get a job in law other than through a clerkship.

With clerkship offers rapidly approaching, maybe we should reflect on what this process is doing to us, and how it became this way.

The state of affairs is familiar to all of us: there are vanishingly few positions in clerkship programs compared to the number of applicants, and most people end up finding jobs outside of clerkships and graduate programs with the big commercial law firms. Even though we know this to be the case, a massive amount of resources are spent advertising seasonal clerkships, and providing advice on how to ace your interview, spruce your C.V., or compose a killer cover letter. 

Clerkships often dominate  discussions about career opportunities after law school. Even though only a few people will get into a clerkship, it is treated as the default path, if not the only way, into a ‘successful’ legal career. A large number of law students wind up with the tacit impression that their whole worth as a legal professional depends on getting into a clerkship at a commercial law firm, with perverse ethical outcomes.

We all do our fair share of puffery when advertising ourselves in job applications, but the hyper-competitiveness that is cultivated by the clerkship process in particular seems to encourage seriously unethical behaviour, and hostility among us all.

As an extreme example, De Minimis has been made aware of allegations that a member of the MULSS executive committee misrepresented their employment credentials in order to secure personal benefits. De Minimis understands that the individual has been employed as a casual at a prominent law firm in the past, but continues to mislead others, both face-to-face and via platforms such as Linkedin, into believing their employment is ongoing.

A senior representative for the firm at which the individual claims to be employed confirmed to De Minimis that although the person had not been formally fired, their contract was unambiguously casual, and they had received no work from the firm since February. De Minimis understands that the lack of work for eight months means that the person is no longer considered an employee as a matter of law.

This raises questions about whether they deceived electors during their 2021 election campaign and whether it would be most appropriate for them to step down from the MULSS Executive Committee. Also in question is when exactly other figures on the Committee became aware of the deception.

It isn’t our place at De Minimis to name and shame this person, or to engage in a private crusade against members of the MULSS, but we are genuinely concerned about this as a manifestation of the toxic, hypercompetitive behaviour that the clerkship process in particular seems to encourage. 

While singling someone out for lying about their work status might seem petty, this is the kind of unethical behaviour that could prevent someone from being admitted as a lawyer, and beyond that, it’s the kind of behaviour that makes people cynical about participating in life at MLS, and makes life miserable for those who try. 

This concern leads us to raise a question: why is the careers information provided by the MULSS seems so heavily skewed towards the clerkship process, when it is ultimately relevant to so few of us?

While events are run to provide information about legal careers in the public sector, or criminal law or public interest law, it nowhere near matches the amount of information or resources devoted to raising awareness about clerkships at commercial law firms, which get their own handbook – which is two and a half times the length of the more generalist careers handbook. Why?

Is it perhaps because of the massive amounts of revenue generated by selling space in the handbook to commercial law firms? Is there a conflict of interest experienced by those who organise and publish the careers information?

Again, we would like to emphasise that De Minimis is not trying to launch a crusade against members of the MULSS. We all sit in a structure that incentivises hyper-competitive behaviour, and we are not suggesting that members of the MULSS have acted with nefarious intentions. Nevertheless, the pattern is clear, and its malign effects are evident.

We need the MULSS to recognise that they put too much emphasis on clerkships as the default pathway into a career, and devote more resources to raising awareness of the normal ways of getting a job after graduation. Clerkships can be a great way to gain experience and exposure, but they are not what most people will experience, and the MULSS has a duty to put its resources into information that is more relevant to the student body at large, who won’t get into one.


Note: This article is the result of an investigation by De Minimis. Anyone seeking to learn more about the methods involved in that investigation, and the veracity of the information, may contact the Editor-in-Chief at: [email protected].

CORRECTION: A previous version of this article cited an incorrect reference. Sorry about that.
Disappointed
15/10/2021 08:40:00 pm

A whole new low to be calling out peoples employment when a ‘senior representative’ confirmed they are an employee. Why people aren’t working or taking a leave of absence etc during a pandemic in the longest locked down city in the world amongst a long list of other alternative personal circumstances that may lead to such a situations is quite disgusting.

??
15/10/2021 08:44:31 pm

What was at first glance turning out to hopefully be a rather insightful article did a complete 360 into a really nasty and targeted attack. NO ONE deserves to be treated like that in these circumstances.

The Full Circle Experience
15/10/2021 09:19:35 pm

I believe the number your looking for is 180, not 360.

THANKS CAPTAIN OBVIOUS
15/10/2021 09:31:11 pm

TYVM

Get over it already mate
15/10/2021 08:50:35 pm

The purely dicta article and now this. Just get over your loss already dude. Who are you to go digging into someone's employment? Maybe worry about yourself and your own admission to practice after all the shady shit you've done. You've singlehandedly destroyed de min and your own future.

Curious
15/10/2021 09:11:05 pm

What was the purely dicta article? Curious to read it

RE: curious
15/10/2021 09:14:58 pm

https://purelydicta.com/2021/10/01/institutional-opacity/

wut
15/10/2021 08:54:39 pm

...I don't think that section of the Fair Work Act means what you think it means.

AGREED
15/10/2021 09:14:28 pm

Pretty sure 'period of employment' actually relates to the period of employment accrued required to validly apply for certain claims under the Fair Work Act. It doesn't relate to the status as an employee. Time for someone to take Employment Law..

status of an employee a common law characterisation
15/10/2021 09:20:34 pm

a status of an employee. common law question? personally i abide by decision in hollis and vabu and do not have recourse to, the statute....

you need to remember employment is a common law relationship

Actual employment lawyer
15/10/2021 09:24:33 pm

Can confirm. It’s an incorrect reference.

DISAPPOINTED 2
15/10/2021 08:58:31 pm

This is an unnecessary, and absolutely awful article. There are so many reasons why people have had their work 'paused' during the pandemic, and so many people have faced similar circumstances. Leave the discussion about whether someone is working or not to be between the individual and their workplace. Surely the workplace would advise an individual of their working status, and any other changes due to covid/other circumstances, as they see fit. It is not Demin's place to get involved, and provoke unnecessary hate. We are at law school to learn how to be lawyers, not to be brought down by our peers. Please have some empathy for others.

Disappointed 3
15/10/2021 09:06:22 pm

This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. The MULSS exec committee is continuously grinding for us, making sure that we have many opportunities to learn about careers, commercial or not. To go behind someone’s back like this and contact their firm, truly despicable.

agreed
15/10/2021 09:19:07 pm

hear hear! utmost grind!

LSS CRINGE
15/10/2021 09:09:57 pm

people on the LSS are some of the cringest and fakest people I’ve met...not surprised that they’ll do anything to make themselves look better in order to climb that corporate ladder. Have no clue who this article is about but if it’s about the previous committee, the incoming committee is not much better lol

disgusting
15/10/2021 09:50:08 pm

disgusting attitude.

also it does take one to know one so maybe you might be 'cringe' for thinking the LSS isn't cool. Just don't hate on those who work hard on behalf of the cohort and volunteer their FREE TIME FOR YOU

why do you think LSS is cool
15/10/2021 10:04:32 pm

Are you on the LSS?

Explain
15/10/2021 09:14:00 pm

Can the Wacko in Chief please explain why the fuck they are spending time investigating the intricacies of someone’s employment relationship? Do you similarly seek to verify the employment details of all of your peers? Get a grip, this is embarrassing.

The Jerk Store
15/10/2021 09:16:27 pm

This is a stunning article. Well written piece on a super important topic! Just sublime!

Justin Kirby
15/10/2021 09:17:40 pm

Y'all mofos are crazy

EROS
15/10/2021 09:22:16 pm

Whoever wrote this hit piece is into autoerotic asphyxiation but the asphyxiation is the bullying of their fellow peers whose personal employment and life circumstances are none of their business.

Please stop
15/10/2021 09:26:24 pm

Please stop, I can only get SO erect

CHOICES
15/10/2021 09:27:52 pm

Can someone please explain why Demin spends so much time bringing others down, instead of actually supporting the student body? Other student societies operate to provide opportunities to connect with the law, and support students. They are building ways to do this from the ground UP. At Demin, under the current leadership, they are only bringing everyone's experience DOWN. There is no thought of how to add value to people's experience at MLS, or build a network of information and ideas to help people flourish. This is the difference between Demin and all other opportunities to engage with the cohorts at MLS. Demin should be ASHAMED of the hurtful impact of articles like this one. Imagine if Demin focused on actually building something of value for the cohort.. Then it would be actually held in high regard for once.

TURD-UCKEN
15/10/2021 09:28:10 pm

This article is like biting into a chocolate muffin and finding out it’s fruitcake- don’t hide your hatred for the LSS under a clerkship-shaped bushel, (redacted). Don’t let other people’s expectations (in this case, of worthwhile writing) define you, like how the promising part of this article says that we shouldn’t let the clerkship process do the same. A true wolf in shit’s clothing.

Fruitcake bakers union
15/10/2021 09:32:14 pm

The fruitcake bakers union condemn this message

RE: FRUITCAKE BAKERS UNION
15/10/2021 09:46:10 pm

Unlike De Min, I will apologise for the hurt I have caused. To lovers and bakers of fruitcake everywhere, from the bottom of my chocolate-loving heart, I’m sorry for have ever compared you to this rag. Grateful for you xx

COMMENTS DELETED
15/10/2021 09:28:17 pm

ARE COMMENTS BEING DELETED FROM THE COMMENTS SECTION?

I read a comment and it was deleted - there needs to be transparancay about what is happening to comments. did the de minimis team delete comments on this article?

Confirmed
15/10/2021 09:31:44 pm

Yes they are. Any comments with the names of people connected with De Min have been deleted

DM
15/10/2021 09:38:19 pm

Hi there,

In accordance with the DM Comment Moderation Policy, some comments which have impugned individuals have been removed.

Please find the policy below:

PART 3 – COMMENT MODERATION POLICY

1. APPLICATION
1.1 This policy applies to all online comments submitted in response to a De Minimis publication, including but not limited to:
a) Comments beneath articles on the De Minimis website; and
b) Comments on social media posts over which De Minimis has power of
moderation.

2. OPERATION
2.1 In applying this section, regard should be given to the importance of unfettered public debate.
2.2 Comments that are defamatory or obscene are to be removed.
2.3 Without limiting r 2.1, where an individual is identified and disparaged in a
comment, that individual shall have absolute discretion as to whether the
comment in question is removed.
2.4 The Online Editor must remove comments in accordance with ss 2.1 and 2.2 as
soon as practicable.
2.5 De Minimis may not require commenters to identify themselves in a forum
where the potential for anonymous commenting exists.
2.6 De Minimis may not require comments to be approved prior to publication.

The rules say so
15/10/2021 09:41:44 pm

Well according to rule 2.2 you should probably remove the comment by 'LSS Cringe' then?

Can we be friends?
15/10/2021 09:28:47 pm

Can we be friends?

Do better
15/10/2021 09:29:18 pm

The article makes a good point, the clerkship season is an incredibly stressful and anxiety inducing moment for everyone who applies.

I’m so glad De Min has taken the time to release this article tearing down a fellow student student one week out from offer day. What valuable investigative journalism it is to attack a student who’s work has been impacted by the pandemic.

It is so reassuring to know that De Min cares about how horrible the clerkship process is and that I can take comfort in the knowledge that if I dare make even one mistake, an anonymous crusader of justice will defame me in front of all of my peers with unsubstantiated evidence.

Ah bless you. A true hero in times of crisis.

Anon
15/10/2021 09:46:32 pm

As someone familiar with the situation, this person's employment or otherwise was not impacted by covid

Eat Feta
15/10/2021 09:46:49 pm

Couldn't agree more with this writer... Can't abuse people whose work was paused during a pandemic that increase law firms revenue by 30%... They probably just needed to pause so they could hire more help

LSS = lame
15/10/2021 09:31:20 pm

Not sure why you’re all so angry that this article is calling out someone for doing something extremely shadey. I get sticking up for your friends but usually ur friends shouldn’t perpetuate fraud lol

sorry no
15/10/2021 09:33:20 pm

excuse me? how dare you? firstly the person that the article is calling out is absolutely not shadey. they are the most hardworking person i know who works tirelessly for not just the lss but for our entire student body so that we can work at better places. have you no shame? do you know what gratefulness is? they are not a fraud. they are extremely amazing so just leave them alone.

LOL
15/10/2021 09:35:03 pm

Are you on drugs? Lol

bait
15/10/2021 09:35:24 pm

Don't fall for the bait. It's a De Min member shitposting.

Just passing by
15/10/2021 09:39:09 pm

Idk if anyone even knows who Dm is talking about tbf....

De Min = Pathetic
15/10/2021 09:42:29 pm

There is no evidence of anything ‘shady’ given in the article. This is just rumour pedalling. But believe what you will, next thing you’ll be confirming the vaccine improves my 5G

Meow
15/10/2021 09:40:21 pm

Agreed. I understand people may have different opinions, but DM is allowing other less common voices in the law school heard. As an international student, it’s bizarre to see how intolerant my classmates have been when a different opinion is articulated.

Shame on all of you
15/10/2021 09:31:44 pm

...for deleting comments naming you all when you direct readers to the exact person you're slandering. Grow a pair collectively between the 6 of you and put your names on it.

are comments being deleted?
15/10/2021 09:35:13 pm

I just want to make a quick note that in this country we have an implied freedom of speech (derived from the text and structure of the constitution - see ss 7, 24 and 128). While not technically a contravention of that constitutional freedom, as De Minimis is not a Commonwealth entity, I feel that deleting the comments undermines the spirit of the IFPC.

Please do not delete comments as it closes the space for permissible public debate and makes us all worse off. We benefit from hearing other people's perspectives and the implied freedom of political communication recognises that. We've all done Constitutional Law so please respect what you learnt in that class.

Peta Credlin
15/10/2021 09:36:30 pm

Fantastic article highlighting the conspiracy of the governing bodies at University

The author of this article has a bright future... Investigative journalism at its finest... You have a job waiting for you at Sky News

We'll fit you in between Alan Jones and Paul Murray!!

All good
15/10/2021 09:45:28 pm

All good - everyone can easily find out who the de min team is by visiting https://www.deminimis.com.au/about-us.html.

Salty
15/10/2021 09:35:13 pm

Mate can you pass the salt you’re hogging it all

DOUBLE-STANDARD
15/10/2021 09:37:22 pm

When De Min deletes comments naming their editors, but have previously pushed back against deleting comments that have been called for removal for being properly harmful. Not sure why you’re protected from the consequences of your actions, but the people at the other end of the actions you allow, aren’t.

IFPC argument
15/10/2021 09:42:24 pm

Just piggybacking on this, there is the implied freedom issue. Basically, you could make the argument that because De Minimis is operating a 'public forum' here, they are under a duty not to impede public debate by deleting comments. As a public operator De Minimis is arguably subject to the norms and standards of news media in this country, which includes promoting free speech and an open marketplace of ideas.

“Hurt” person
15/10/2021 09:44:41 pm

Hi so I’ve actually been named/referenced negatively in de min comments before and the team reached out to ask if I wanted them to delete it. I said no, so they didn’t. It’s apparently standard practise to not ignore the wishes of the people mentioned.

Interesting
16/10/2021 01:36:27 am

Can DM confirm is they reached out to the student in question? Very poor form if not.

'To the dogs' or really just the six behind this
15/10/2021 09:37:23 pm

Perhaps the LSS should send this article to the firms and government offices with your names attached to the editorial board. If you're trying to get someone outcast for supposedly lying, then it's only fair the six of you miss out on any clerk or grad offers for bullying and harassment.

Hypocrites aren’t sexy
15/10/2021 09:54:20 pm

Cute u are concerned for the person in this story but are perfectly happy to anonymously comment these horrible things.

Re: hypocrites aren’t sexy
15/10/2021 10:01:48 pm

Ironic isn’t it

Two wrongs don’t make a rigut
15/10/2021 10:07:52 pm

That’s a nasty thing to say, just because others aren’t considerate doesn’t mean you have to stoop to their level...

Spell correctly next time when trying to make a point
15/10/2021 10:17:03 pm

Hi “two wrongs don’t make a rigut” It’s right*, not sure what a rigut :)

Then why don’t you have the correct grammar
15/10/2021 10:23:05 pm

Bruh didn’t know I was trying to write a h1 essay...speaking of correctness, “not sure what a ‘right’” doesn’t make much sense either ;)

Everyone needs to chill tf out
15/10/2021 10:08:02 pm

Bullying and harassment? That’s a big call. Take a deep breath and relax x

Re: everyone needs to chill TF out
15/10/2021 10:23:33 pm

Big call that can be substantiated if you wanted to waste your time reading through all the other trash articles this publication has produced.

What Resources???
15/10/2021 09:43:42 pm

Disgusting unfounded personal attacks aside, this article keeps talking about the LSS "allocating its resources" disproportionately towards clerkship advertisement.

You guys do realise that firms pay the LSS for advertising space? It GENERATES resources.

Abe
15/10/2021 09:43:43 pm

So, I tied an onion to my belt which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter,' you'd say.

Duhamel
15/10/2021 09:52:32 pm

Listen up, y'all, 'cause this is it
The beat that I'm bangin' is delicious
Fergalicious, definition make them boys go loco
They want my treasure, so they get their pleasures from my photo
You could see me, you can't squeeze me
I ain't easy, I ain't sleazy
I got reasons why I tease 'em
Boys just come and go like seasons
Fergalicious (so delicious)
But I ain't promiscuous
And if you was suspicious
All that shit is fictitious
I blow kisses (mwah)
That puts them boys on rock, rock
And they be lining down the block
Just to watch what I got (four, tres, two, uno)
It's so delicious (it's hot, hot)
It's so delicious (I put them boys on rock, rock)
It's so delicious (they wanna taste of what I got)
I'm Fergalicious (t-t-t-t-t-tasty, tasty)

LANGE V ABC
15/10/2021 09:55:32 pm

"Sections 7 and 24 of the Constitution, read in context, require the members of the Senate and the House of Representatives to be directly chosen at periodic elections by the people of the States and of the Commonwealth respectively. This requirement embraces all that is necessary to effectuate the free election of representatives at periodic elections. What is involved in the people directly choosing their representatives at periodic elections, however, can be understood only by reference to the system of representative and responsible government to which ss 7 and 24 and other sections of the Constitution give effect."

"Freedom of communication on matters of government and politics is an indispensable incident of that system of representative government which the Constitution creates by directing that the members of the House of Representatives and the Senate shall be "directly chosen by the people" of the Commonwealth and the States, respectively. At federation, representative government was understood to mean a system of government where the people in free elections elected their representatives to the legislative chamber which occupies the most powerful position in the political system."

"That being so, ss 7 and 24 and the related sections of the Constitution necessarily protect that freedom of communication between the people concerning political or government matters which enables the people to exercise a free and informed choice as electors."

Joke of an organisation
15/10/2021 09:53:33 pm

“I associate myself with De Minimis in any capacity 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩”

Seriously, what the fuck? Who can look at De Minimis over the past year (and longer, if we’re honest) and still willingly volunteer their time for and/or contribute to this absolute rag…?

I ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed
15/10/2021 09:54:05 pm

A masked man is pouring a glass of milk. Another man is shown walking down the hallway towards the room. As he is let into the room by two guards, we can see that the man is abnormally short. The masked man is dunking a small person into the glass of milk.

FARQUAAD: (stepping forward) That's enough. He's ready to talk.

The Gingerbread Man is pulled out of the milk by Thelonious and is slammed down onto a cookie sheet. Farquaad manically laughs as he walks over to the table. When he reaches the table we see that it only goes up to his eyes. He clears his throat and the table is lowered.

FARQUAAD: (he picks up the Gingy's severed legs and plays with them) Run, run, run, as fast as you can. You can't catch me. I'm the gingerbread man!

GINGY: You're a monster.

FARQUAAD: I'm not the monster here, you are. (throws one leg at Gingy) You and the rest of that fairy tale trash, poisoning my perfect world (crumbes his other leg into dust). Now, tell me! Where are the others?!

GINGY: Eat me! (He spits milk into Farquaad's eye.)

FARQUAAD: I've tried to be fair to you creatures. Now my patience has reached its end! Tell me or I'll...(he grabs one of Gingy's gumdrop buttons)

GINGY: No, no, not the buttons. Not my gumdrop buttons!

FARQUAAD: All right then. Who's hiding them?

GINGY: Okay, I'll tell you. Do you know the muffin man?

FARQUAAD: The muffin man?

GINGERBREAD MAN: The muffin man.

FARQUAAD: Yes, I know the muffin man, who lives on Drury Lane?

GINGERBREAD MAN: Well, she's married to the muffin man.

FARQUAAD: The muffin man?

GINGERBREAD MAN: The muffin man!

FARQUAAD: She's married to the muffin man...(A door opens and the Captain announces himself)

HEAD GUARD: My lord! We've found it.

FARQUAAD: Then what are you waiting for? Bring it in!

More guards enter carrying something that is covered by a sheet. They hang up whatever it is and remove the sheet. It is the Magic Mirror.

GINGERBREAD MAN: (in awe) Ohhhh...

FARQUAAD: Magic mirror...

GINGERBREAD MAN: Don't tell him anything! (Farquaad picks him up and dumps him into a trash can with a lid.) No!

FARQUAAD: Evening. Mirror, mirror on the wall, is this not the most perfect kingdom of them all?

MIRROR: Well, technically you're not a king.

FARQUAAD: Uh, Thelonius. (Thelonius holds up a hand mirror and smashes it with his fist.) You were saying?

MIRROR: What I mean is you're not a king yet. But you can become one. All you have to do is marry a princess.

FARQUAAD: Go on.

MIRROR: (chuckles nervously) So, just sit back and relax, my lord, because it's time for you to meet today's eligible bachelorettes. And here they are!

Using himself as a screen, the Magic Mirror presents a dating show to Farquaad, Thelonious, the Captain, and a few Duloc Guards.

MIRROR: Bachelorette number one is a mentally abused shut-in from a kingdom far, far away. She likes sushi and hot tubbing anytime. Her hobbies include cooking and cleaning for her two evil sisters. Please welcome Cinderella. (shows picture of Cinderella) Bachelorette number two is a cape-wearing girl from the land of fancy. Although she lives with seven other men, she's not easy. Just kiss her dead, frozen lips and find out what a live wire she is. Come on. Give it up for Snow White! (shows picture of Snow White) And last, but certainly not last, bachelorette number three is a fiery redhead from a dragon-guarded castle surrounded by hot boiling lava! But don't let that cool you off. She's a loaded pistol who likes piña coladas and getting caught in the rain. Yours for the rescuing, Princess Fiona! (Shows picture of Princess Fiona) So will it be: bachelorette number one, bachelorette number two or bachelorette number three?

GUARDS: Two! Two! Three! Three! Two! Two! Three!

FARQUAAD: Three? One? Three?

THELONIUS: Three! (holds up 2 fingers) Pick number three, my lord!

FARQUAAD: Okay, okay, uh, number three!

MIRROR: Lord Farquaad, you've chosen Princess Fiona.

"Escape (The Piña Colada Song)" by Rupert Holmes begins playing. The crowd cheers.

FARQUAAD: (Gazing at her portrait) Princess Fiona...she's perfect. All I have to do is just find someone who can go...(Farquaad starts braintstorming)

MIRROR: But I probably should mention the little thing that happens at night.

FARQUAAD: (Talking to himself, ignoring the Mirror) I'll do it.

MIRROR: Yes, but after sunset...

FARQUAAD: Silence! I will make this Princess Fiona my queen, and Duloc will finally have the perfect king! Captain, assemble your finest men. We're going to have a tournament. (smiles evilly)

ONIONS HAVE LAYERS
15/10/2021 10:02:33 pm

Welcome to Duloc, such a perfect town
Here we have some rules, let us lay them down
Don't make waves, stay in line
And we'll get along fine
Duloc is a perfect place

Keep your feet off the grass
Shine your shoes, wipe your….face
Duloc is, Duloc is
Duloc is a perfect place

LSS needs to be cleaned up
15/10/2021 09:56:34 pm

I will admit I do not know a great deal about the incoming executive team, but the rotting culture created by the outgoing LSS leadership needs to change.

We all know of the massive powertrip a select few went on over the course of their tenure fOr ThE gReAtEr GoOd Of ThE sTuDeNt BoDy. All trust has been lost and those in power must be held accountable to transparency. It has tarnished the experience of the first and second year students.

So true
15/10/2021 10:02:11 pm

100% agree. Serious question, was the executive team actually concerned for the welfare of the student body when creating an anonymous online reporting system, or did they just have some weird fetish for having dirt against students in an effort to cancel and ostracise them.

The way the executive team acted last year you'd be forgiven for thinking the LSS stood for Law Stasi Society.

Do share
15/10/2021 10:02:34 pm

What is this incident? Care to share?

Hear hear
15/10/2021 10:09:59 pm

Everyone seems to drink the LSS cool aid but??? I will say they obviously do put in time and effort to produce content or promote content to us, but its what they signed up for? They wanted the role (presumably for their own personal benefit of padding the CV)??

Then stop participating
15/10/2021 10:14:56 pm

If you hate the LSS so much, I hope you're not attending Law Ball, Valedictory, any of the networking events or career panels, or using any of their supports or online tutorials. Seriously, what do you think MLS would be like without the LSS?

Confused
15/10/2021 10:41:01 pm

What was the powertrip ? Please elaborate

Sue
15/10/2021 09:58:10 pm

Stop making a joke of Melbourne Uni journalism. how embarrassing having someone like you represent us. Youre neville from Icarly.

Pot Kettle Black
15/10/2021 10:00:46 pm

This article and the baseless, targeted attacks from your entire team is “the kind of behaviour that makes people cynical about participating in life at MLS, and makes life miserable for those who try.” A student’s employment isn’t anyone’s business but them and their employer. Perhaps if the team at De Min exerted the same amount of effort in tearing an innocent person down into striving for opportunities, this article wouldn’t reek of desperation. Clearly, you didn’t get the answer you were hoping for when you contacted the firm and they confirmed the student’s employment status was active. Instead, you’ve made a poor attempt at trying to convince the student body that you’re actually concerned about the hyper-competitiveness of law school. Shame on all of you!

Here here
15/10/2021 10:02:12 pm

Here here

Boris
15/10/2021 10:05:17 pm

It’s ‘hear, hear’, encouraging you to hear the person speaking.

Come on bro. You can’t make mistakes. This is MLS.

Hear hear
15/10/2021 10:08:53 pm

Hear hear

Yep
15/10/2021 10:03:38 pm

Yep yep yep

Please
15/10/2021 10:00:51 pm

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy

No Yankees please
15/10/2021 11:40:53 pm

I don't think any MLS students attended middle school boss

Revelations
15/10/2021 10:02:40 pm

The Melbourne Law School student collapsed at the revolving door. He cried out for help but was trampled by LSS members rushing to get priority clerkship offers. As he quickly bled to death, he said the following:

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore, the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

John
15/10/2021 10:03:05 pm

It's a shame there isn't really much advertised at the university for students who want to pursue criminal work. I know the professional layout is different and that there is a lot more graduate positions in large commercial firms, but at least as far as I saw there was no clerkship-esque opportunities for people interested in criminal work when I was at MLS

henry
15/10/2021 11:35:02 pm

Thats because there is none out there. Criminal law work wouldn't be more than 2% of billings for legal work in Victoria. Its miniscule, very badly paid, and very unpleasant.

Stary Norton Partner
15/10/2021 11:44:42 pm

Yesss Henry, let the hate flow through you. Gooood gooood!

henry
16/10/2021 02:24:10 pm

Criminal law is a joke where there is barely any work. One way to tell the law lemmings is to see them wax lyrical about how they're going to be a 'criminal defense lawyer'.

Reality is if you visit the average Magistrates Court you will see more people working there on the security scanning than private lawyers with cases on.

By far the most appearance work is done by Legal Aid, and thats a guilty plea factory anyway. Yes, we are swamped with Intervention Orders but they are de-facto mandatory and its extremely rare that anyone challenges them (or ever gets a fair hearing).

Oh but you'll be different? You'll offer top line criminal defence? Once your clients realize that legal aid isn't going to fund their speeding ticket challenge (90% of phonecalls about criminal law are timewasters going on about speeding fines or intervention orders) on human rights grounds, they'll be out of your office/off the phone that fast you'll forget they were even there.

Jerry
15/10/2021 10:03:47 pm

According to all known laws
of aviation,

there is no way a bee
should be able to fly.

Its wings are too small to get
its fat little body off the ground.

The bee, of course, flies anyway, because bees don't care
what humans think is impossible.

And no one cares about your terrible squabble

Suuuurrreeee
15/10/2021 10:03:55 pm

"CORRECTION: A previous version of this article cited an incorrect reference. Sorry about that."

Yeah... that was the problem. You definitely fixed it.

"Sorry about that"
15/10/2021 10:08:26 pm

I think what they meant to say was "We used an incorrect interpretation of the Fair Work Act to accuse someone of lying on their Linkedin. It turns out we were wrong and this entire article is baseless, but we're going to leave it up anyway because we're douchebags."

CCP
15/10/2021 10:09:15 pm

为人民服务

Uh
15/10/2021 10:11:54 pm

I mean is anyone else kinda weirded out, beside other glaringly obvious issues, that someone at a reputable law firm is willingly to share employment info about a member of the team? Like wut

Depends on what De Min asked
15/10/2021 10:21:18 pm

I think depending on how the phone call was made the firm could be blameless here.

If De Min phoned up and said "hey we're running a hit piece on one of your paralegals, want to help" the firm should have just hung up.

But De Min probably called up and said "Hey, we're doing a reference check for employee ______, can you confirm whether they still work for you", so the firm was probably in the clear here.

True
15/10/2021 10:28:06 pm

Yeah that makes sense...didn’t even think about that’s how they could’ve approached it. Super weird if true

Sabine
15/10/2021 10:13:13 pm

Not afraid to put my name to this and call out the blatant bullying in this article.

I think it's also important to mention that, prior to publishing this article, someone made an anonymous instagram account and interacted with LSS pages discussing the matter of this post as another attempt to bully the victim. A member of the de min team also "liked" one of these (now deleted) comments. Spreading misinformation and lies about a person -- which those comments did-- is defamation. This article piggy backs off those comments, and therefore is also still bullying.

Literally EVERYONE is struggling right now. We are in a bloody global pandemic. It goes without saying that everyone's mental health is fragile atm. I hope the team at de min aren't so blindly arrogant and confident in their ability to 'expose the truth' that they forget the mental harm they are causing the victim in this article.

I wish de min had just come out and written an article about how the LSS needs to do more than share information about commercial career pathways. They do - and they need student pressure to do so. But once again, de min has missed the mark. Please - heed your own advice. Do better, for the student body or whatever.

ENDORSED
15/10/2021 10:16:58 pm

Could not agree more. Real issue, completely ruined by unacceptable personal attack based off seemingly nothing at all.

Yep
15/10/2021 10:17:05 pm

Yep yep yep

Nosy
15/10/2021 10:19:53 pm

What did the comments say?

Agree
15/10/2021 10:31:54 pm

Yes i wanna know

oath
15/10/2021 10:27:26 pm

100% agree.

Another students' employment status is really not your concern, and a pretty inappropriate invasion of privacy to reach out to a 'senior representative' of the firm rather than call HR, or idk, mind your own business.

Clerkships are shit, commercial law isn't the only option, and there's absolutely not enough advocacy for careers elsewhere in the law or other industries after the JD - but this was just a woeful unsubstantiated attack on one of your peers during a really stressful time of semester after a really stressful couple of years for everyone. I really can't understand what you were intending to achieve from this.

This is a breach of the constituition
15/10/2021 10:13:38 pm

Ah all right. Give me one moment and I will. Well it’s
the…the ah…the constitution of Australia. This is a
blatant violation of the constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia. And when it comes to violations they don’t come any bigger.

What section of the constitution has been breached?

Section? What section? There is no one section. It’s just the vibe of the thing.

I’m afraid Mr Denudo you’ll have to be more specific.

Oh yeah sure, sure. I was just starting general then I
was getting more specific. The ah um, just one moment
please, the ah um, (Jesus Daryl I am sweating here)
You’re killing them Dennis (I don’t know no roman numerals)

Um (xx) I’ve got it here it’s section fifty one.Second from the bottom. The parliament shall have power to make law with
respect to copyrights, patents of inventions and
designs and trademarks.

It’s all part of it. This is what I’m getting at. That’s my point. It’s the vibe of it

Alright. Do you have a precedent that supports
this..vibe?

Yes, yes I do. Ah just one moment. (What’s the name of
the famous aboriginal?)

Cathy Freeman

Na na the court case

Yvonne Goolagong

No, no, the Marbo Marbo

What about it?

That’s your classic case of big business trying to
take land and they couldn’t

Mr Denudo. The Marbo Decision pertains to the specific
issue of native land title, aterra nellus.

Yeah

So what part of the judgment is relevant to this case?

Again it it it’s just the vibe of it. Actually may Iapproach the bench? Am I wasting my time here?

Your case is not strong

Am I sort of in the ball park?

I’m a judge!

I understand. Can you just give me an angle.

I’m sorry Mr Denudo I can’t.

Understood. I think I have a good one anyway.
In summing up, it’s the constitution, it’s Marbo it’s
justice, it’s law, it’s the vibe and ah, no that’s it,
it’s the vibe. I rest my case.

That was sensational

Inspirational
15/10/2021 10:14:09 pm

'As long as there are games to play, it is not over' - Sir Alex Ferguson

just sad really
15/10/2021 10:15:44 pm

I actually had hope for a brief second that maybe De Min had a change of heart with the satire and horoscope memes, and thought maybe, just maybe, in the next year we'll get some quality bants and amusing stories.

But no, same shit.

Sad
15/10/2021 10:21:34 pm

“0 comments” doesn’t quite stroke the editors ego the same way. At the end of the day that’s what it’s all about. No fucks given to quality content, bring on the bullying. Only thing keeping them relevant.

SCHOOL OF (C)ROCK
15/10/2021 10:20:53 pm

You’re tacky and I hate you

Care to explain?
15/10/2021 10:25:24 pm

Would DM care to explain how exactly they got this private employment 'information" - and don't cite journalistic privilege, this content doesn't deserve the label of journalism

Email
15/10/2021 10:34:19 pm

Someone email them and tell us lol

totally 100% justified article, not hypocritical at all
15/10/2021 10:33:18 pm

Don't listen to the haters in the comments De Min! MLS students deserve to know about any unethical conduct by their peers, no matter how minor the incident.

Are the editors aware of any other unethical behaviour by MLS students? Like hypothetically whether any MLS students assaulted a woman in a fountain earlier this year? Just as an example.

Lmfaooooo
15/10/2021 10:37:42 pm

👀 Lol

And I oop
15/10/2021 10:40:22 pm

The tea is piping hot

Huh
15/10/2021 10:41:35 pm

Pls do tell? What is this incident?

Who do you think
15/10/2021 10:44:05 pm

[redacted] assaulted a girl in the Carlton gardens fountain and she had to get stitches.

tastey tastey
15/10/2021 10:49:42 pm

Unprovoked* assault (allegedly)

???
15/10/2021 10:50:42 pm

Someone on the DM team? A girl from MLS? I have actually no clue and this is the first time hearing about it

Couldn’t have said it better myself
15/10/2021 10:52:36 pm

“this is the kind of unethical behaviour that could prevent someone from being admitted as a lawyer“

JT
15/10/2021 10:55:35 pm

Hey, girl, is he everything you wanted in a man?
You know I gave you the world (world)
You had me in the palm of your hand
So why your love went away
I just can't seem to understand
Thought it was me and you, babe (babe)
Me and you until the end
But I guess I was wrong (uh)
Don't want to think about it (uh)
Don't want to talk about it (uh)
I'm just so sick about it
Can't believe it's ending this way
Just so confused about it (uh)
Feeling the blues about it (yeah)
I just can't do without ya
But tell me, is this fair?
Is this the way it's really going down?
Is this how we say goodbye?
Should have known better when you came around
That you were gonna make me cry
It's breaking my heart to watch you run around
'Cause I know that you're living a lie
But that's okay, baby, 'cause in time you will find
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around, yeah
Now girl, I remember everything that you claimed
You said that you were moving on now (on now)
And maybe I should do the same (maybe I should do the same)
The funny thing about that is
I was ready to give you my name
Thought it was me and you, baby (baby)
And now it's all just a shame
And I guess I was wrong, yeah
Don't want to think about it (no)
Don't want to talk about it (huh)
I'm just so sick about it
Can't believe it's ending this way
Just so confused about it (uh)
Feeling the blues about it (yeah)
I just can't do without ya can you tell me, is this fair?
Is this the way it's really going down?
Is this how we say goodbye? (Uh)
Should have known better when you came around
Should have known better that you were gonna make me cry
And now it's breaking my heart to watch you run around
'Cause I know that you're living a lie
But that's ok, baby, 'cause in time you will find
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around, yeah
What goes around comes around (comes around, comes around)
Yeah
What goes around comes around (comes around, comes around)
You should know that
What goes around comes around (comes around, comes around)
Yeah (yeah)
What goes around comes around (comes around, comes around)
You should know that
Yeah, don't want to think about it (no)
Don't want to talk about it (uh)
I'm just so sick about it
Can't believe it's ending this way
Just so confused about it (uh)
Feeling the blues about it (yeah)
I just can't do without ya
Ah, tell me, is this fair?
Is this the way it's really going down?
Is this how we say goodbye? (Oh)
Should have known better when you came around
Should have known better that you were gonna make me cry
It's breaking my heart to watch you run around ('cause I know that you're living a lie)
But that's ok, baby, 'cause in time you will find
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around, yeah (yeah babe)
Let me paint this picture for you, baby (yo, yo) (uh)
You spend your nights alone and he never comes home
And every time you call him all you get is a busy tone
I heard you found out
That he's doing to you what you did to me
Ain't that the way it goes
When you cheated, girl
My heart bleeded, girl
So it goes without saying that you left me feeling hurt
Just a classic case scenario
Tale as old as time girl, you got what you deserved
And now you want somebody to cure the lonely nights
You wish you had somebody that could come and make it right
But girl, I ain't somebody with a lot of sympathy
See, see (uh)
I thought I told ya, hey (hey)
(What goes around comes back around)
I thought I told ya, hey (hey)
I thought I told ya, hey (hey)
(Ha, what goes around comes back around)
I thought I told ya, hey (hey)
Take it to him
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey
Take it to him
See (hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey)
You should have listened to me, baby
Take it to him
(Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey)
(Hey, hey, hey) Take it to him
(Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey)
Uh
Hey girl
Because what goes around comes back around
Ooh

hypothetically, of course
15/10/2021 11:27:03 pm

Unethical behaviour, hmm let me think... Would the second year LSS girls doing lines of cocaine in the law ball bathroom in 2019 count?

Just an example

Biglaw
15/10/2021 11:46:29 pm

Just wait until you find out actual lawyers who work at firms do drugs too!

This ain’t it
16/10/2021 12:22:46 am

Are you comparing recreational drug use to assaulting someone?

Oop
16/10/2021 12:51:54 am

OMG unethical behaviour hmm let me think...would assaulting someone count? Or does it get cancelled out because said person provided first aid?

Simple Minds
15/10/2021 10:33:20 pm

POV: you’re the ‘senior representative’ about to pick up and speak with the De Min editorial team

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2UOujAj6GabVQV5ASrb4SG20tUbktlcpWXw&usqp=CAU

henry
15/10/2021 10:34:21 pm

I think we're all missing the real point here.

For most, the law degree is a disastrous mistake. 140k of non dischargeable debt for a degree that will likely not get you a job and will be a stigma for non-law jobs.

If you're not top 10% of the class after first year, drop out now. Its a disaster!

Also you need to be really careful relying on the published job statistics.

Note this crucial section in the jobs report:
The results rely on the veracity of the data reported to us as well as data obtained from other sources – for example, our annual interviews with law firms and other organisations where graduates work

In other words, the law school makes sure to interview the big employers and therefore captures the data of the 20% of the class or so who actually get jobs. This, combined with the fact the rest of the data is done on a voluntary survey (and people who are not working are much less likely to complete the survey) means that the real unemployment rate is much much higher than you think.

The advice stands: if not in the top 10% after first year, drop out!

RE: Henry
15/10/2021 10:45:46 pm

henry bby, read the room

THE REAL POINT
15/10/2021 10:49:45 pm

Henry, Mum and Dad are fighting, not now, honey

Jeff
15/10/2021 10:57:45 pm

I love that Henry has consistently been commenting this for like three years now. Go Henry!

Won’t somebody think of the children
15/10/2021 10:57:24 pm

This is why no one wants to be a part of student societies or student politics because it’s a joke and takes out all of the fun that being a student should entail. All involved need to chill out

Societies suck
15/10/2021 11:07:00 pm

Yeah the LSS are ridiculously cliquey. Go after their own and all hell breaks loose. They go after a lesser student in the cohort and no one bats an eye or it’s covered up. Even the greatest men and women get drunk with power, especially when that power is made out to be something far more substantial than it really is. This is a uni group for Christ’s sake

Re Societies Suck
15/10/2021 11:20:15 pm

Maybe this person is just very nice and well liked. There position makes the identifiable. Nothing to do with being a LSS member or lesser student it just about being a nice person who helps others and what goes around comes around.

Re Re Societies Suck - the point: you missed it
15/10/2021 11:26:47 pm

Nothing to do with whether they are the nicest person on earth or not. De minimis and LSS are both incredibly toxic and no one wants to be a part of them anymore because of all this unnecessary drama

Re re re Societies Suck
15/10/2021 11:28:41 pm

not to be a dick. But if you really think that why are you here commenting...

RE RE RE RE societies suck
15/10/2021 11:39:26 pm

Ooooo cancel me because I said I don’t like them

henry
15/10/2021 11:00:04 pm

Ok you're not listening, as usual.

Typical law school lemmings. I know you think you're special (snowflakes?), but you are not. When you are permanently unemployed five years out with a mountain of undischargeable debt, then you'll really regret not listening. But, of course, you know it all.....

Your schools 'statistics' are selectively compiled to harvest the top grads outcomes. You need to wake up.

Allens Managing Partner
15/10/2021 11:36:21 pm

If it'll shut you up Henry, you're hired!

LSS President and Commander in Chief (Eternal Role)
15/10/2021 11:00:31 pm

They targeted the LSS.

The LSS.

We're a group of people who will sit for hours, days, even weeks on end performing some of the hardest, most mentally demanding tasks. Over, and over, and over all for nothing more than a little digital token saying we did.

We'll punish our selfs doing things others would consider torture, because we think it's fun.

We'll spend most if not all of our free time min maxing the stats of our CVs all to draw out a single extra point in our pursuit of a clerkship at Allens.

Many of us have made our livelihoods out of doing just these things: slogging through the grind, all day, the same emails to stakeholders over and over, hundreds of times to the point where we know every little detail such that some have attained such LSS nirvana that they can literally recite the LinkedIn bios of KWM partners blindfolded.

Do these people have any idea how many pages of Arlen's books have been highlighted, word documents freezing, disks and carts destroyed in frustration? All to latter be referred to as bragging rights?

These people honestly think this is a battle they can win? They try to hold us accountable for our actions as elected representatives? We're already building a new law society without them. They make fun of our events? The LSS gang aren't shy about throwing their money else where, or even making events only for ourselves.

They think calling us boring, elitist, hypocrites is going to change us? We've been called worse things by prepubescent 14 year olds when we were house prefects at Melbourne's most prestigious schools. They picked a fight against a group that's already grown desensitised to their strategies and methods. Who enjoy the battle of attrition they've threatened us with. Who take it as a challenge when they tell us we no longer matter. Our obsession with proving we can after being told we can't is so deeply ingrained from years of dealing with peers and friends laughing at how pathetic we used to be that proving you people wrong has become a very real need; a honed reflex.

The LSS members are competitive and hardcore, by nature. We love a challenge. The worst thing you did in all of this was to challenge us. You're not special, you're not original, you're not the first; this is just another clerkship application.

Old faithful
15/10/2021 11:02:50 pm

This took a lot longer to show up than I thought... up your game copy pasta commenters

LSS RISE UP
15/10/2021 11:37:05 pm

Why did it take this long for this gem, come on MLS, do better.

henry
15/10/2021 11:07:18 pm

Really think you're all missing the point. There are no jobs. The law degree will leave you worse off. The disaster of non dischargeable debt is approaching. Please please see what is really going on. Law students are unrealistic at the best of times, but you really have to look at the hard numbers (not the schools selective statistics). Those numbers are coming for you.

The world revolves around me
15/10/2021 11:11:23 pm

I have a job

[citation needed]
15/10/2021 11:12:15 pm

Got a link to these numbers buddy?

Henry 2.0
15/10/2021 11:14:12 pm

I am you but better

@ the group chat
15/10/2021 11:17:06 pm

Shout out the homies in the group chat cant wait to have martinis

Just Asking For A Mate
15/10/2021 11:27:41 pm

I think the real issue here is the strong positive correlation between shit WAM, good law firm, and LSS Committee Member - do they spit or swallow?

… just asking for a mate

Your comment is
15/10/2021 11:37:17 pm

Very true

Asking for a mate
15/10/2021 11:41:10 pm

Is 83.055 a shit WAM? :)

…Asking for a mate

Just Asking For A Mate
15/10/2021 11:43:18 pm

So you spit?

Weirdly Impressed
15/10/2021 11:43:21 pm

Weird Flex but great WAM Sir

RE asking for a mate
15/10/2021 11:43:53 pm

Nah it’s a great WAM but without a link to the committee makes no sense in this context

Heard from a friend
15/10/2021 11:41:25 pm

Always swallow. It is a sign of respect.

Oof
15/10/2021 11:49:00 pm

Hard hitting comment and the most confusing part about the clerkship process. How does being on the lss make a better clerk rather than studying? What are the resume dot points did I miss? Some jazz about time management when tirelessly organising a sausage sizzle.

RESPECT
15/10/2021 11:55:09 pm

the guild

Consti
16/10/2021 12:19:36 am

I have no horse in this race but people citing the constitution here has the same energy as people posting about not giving permission to FB to harvest their data by citing the geneva convention

MLS elite
16/10/2021 01:07:54 am

The magna carta gives the lss rights and the nuremberg trials banned de minimis !

Not the President since '20
16/10/2021 12:46:20 am

🐸☕
When you lose the presidency and still can't get your transparency amendment passed.

Why?
16/10/2021 05:40:15 am

I wonder if firms give a shit if people work on committees during law school. I'd be frankly surprised if they did. As a result, I view people working on LSS as folks who legitimately just want to be helpful. Calm down. Not sure why you dislike LSS so much.

TLDR
16/10/2021 10:26:17 am

For those who can't be bothered reading through the whole thing, the crux of the argument is that, even though the employer and the employee have confirmed the employment, De Min says otherwise.

Reas the article, not the comments
16/10/2021 11:56:00 am

That is not the crux. Someone wrote to De Min about this persons representations both online and 'face to face'. It sounds like someone on the LSS has had enough of someone else on the LSS.
The article makes good points about the competitive and pressured process of clerkships. This pressure, by example, leads very intelligent and kind people to feel like they need to lie to their friends, and the cohort, in order to secure a job. All despite the amazing access and opportunities being on the LSS gives you to network and be close to firms, especially HR. With that access, the person still felt vulnerable enough to 'keep up appearances' amongst their cohort and in interviews, rather than being themselves (which I am positive would be enough to secure a clerkship). Adding an extra month on the cv or linkedin is no big deal, especially in a pandemic, but feeling like you need to lie in face to face interactions is a symptom of a very high stressed process. Maybe it is also a result of going through this in lockdown, where it might feel like your actions are not impacting anyone else - like those who have struggled to be employed during lockdowns but attend events or meetings where this person feels the need to lie about their work.

De Min going all current affair and contacting the employer sounds like an effort to confirm the tip-off they received from another likely LSS member. They could have not published the tip off, or spoken generally about people feeling inadequate and stressed despite being very kind, intelligent and wonderful applicants. The framing could be better, but the crux still stands. Have a cuppa and enjoy your Saturday.

RE: REAS THE ARTICLE, NOT THE COMMENTS
16/10/2021 12:17:01 pm

You’ve done more for this article than the article did for itself, and you’re giving the article credit for nuance and extrapolation it doesn’t have, but that you’ve provided on your own. Kudos to you, but not to the article

actually read the article before you correct people
16/10/2021 12:17:28 pm

You're skimming over the pretty major point that the person in question WASN'T lying. Their employer confirmed to De Min that they WERE a current employee.

The article originally got around this by writing that because they hadn't completed any hours in X months (which is allowed on a casual contract) according to the Fair Work Act they were no longer an "employee". When commenters pointed out that this interpretation of the Fair Work Act was incorrect De Min deleted all references to the Act but kept the original accusations, despite those accusations no longer having even a shaky justification.

TLDR De Min sucks

respect peoples privacy and have some respect
16/10/2021 12:26:41 pm

No one on the lss ‘tipped’ anyone off. De Min tipped themselves off to give the illusion they were doing the student body some twisted favour in exposing their peers. They took matter into their own hands to progress their own society agenda against the lss and the personal agenda of some (or one individual) member(s) of their committee.

Once again de min has taken the approach of trying to bring others down through clickbait style writing. This is instead of providing any form of useful discussion and as the De Min team seems to love have let the comments do all the talking for them. While they sit back and stroke their own egos in the name of journalist integrity hiding behind the comments so that they can all sleep at night knowing they are washing their own careers down the drain being associated with such a disgraceful organisation.

henry
16/10/2021 11:51:34 am

If you’re paying full fees, ie leaving with a 140k debt, and aren’t say top 20% after first year, then you are headed for a disaster.

The schools job statistics cant be relied upon: they are selectively compiled; making sure they scoop up the people working for the big firms/govt depts first, thus capturing the top students and making the statistics look a lot better than what they are.

Imagine five years post graduation. You have a non dischargeable debt of 140k. There are no jobs. You’ll discover that law is NOT a broad versatile degree, in fact in many ways it has a stigma for other jobs. The people you knew who are tradies are buying second homes. And you will really really wish you’d listened to what I’m saying right now. You will be one of the ‘disappeared’. And when you try to ignore others, they will laugh at you, as you are laughing now.

Google the idea of a ‘sunk cost’ and realize that continuing on at law school if not top 20% in the first year is the very definition of a sunk cost. Get out now. Or at least demand a 70% reduction in your fees.

Henry, Darling
16/10/2021 11:58:51 am

I declare bankruptcy

Counter-intuitive
16/10/2021 12:20:22 pm

I don’t think you realise how you’re actively making it harder for people to take what you’re talking about seriously, lol. Truth or otherwise

It’s Your Mother
16/10/2021 12:44:26 pm

Henry darling come and leave my basement and come out and get some fresh air today. You can jump back on and troll later dear xx

henry
16/10/2021 12:56:53 pm

What is it I’m making up?:

Is it that the law schools statistics are selectively compiled, so that they chase up the grads in the top jobs first? That’s a fact, noted by them in their report.

Is it the fact that accordingly, logically, this means the unemployment rate is much worse than reported?

Is it that someone on full fees will end up owing 140k, and this debt is non dischargeable?

Is it that no matter how hard you work, 80% of you will not be in the top 20% ?

Is it that BigLaw and govt only want grads from the top 20%, and there’s a clear marks cutoff?

Is it that BigLaw itself is going through a slow collapse, doing cases it would never have touched in the 1990s, with incomes going lower every year?

Is it that boutique/midlaw is largely a mythical construct, and if you don’t get BigLaw you (might) get SmallLaw (there’s another word for it but wont say it) and that you simply will not believe how bad SmallLaw is, how low the pay is, how the ‘clients’ treat you, how they never pay for it etc etc?

Is it that a law degree, no matter how you try to contort it, is not a ‘versatile’ degree, and virtually all grads 5 years plus out will tell you that ?

Is it that anyone who is not in the top 20% after first year, is facing a disaster?

Please set me straight here. Don’t just dismiss me, set me straight.

Daddy Henry
16/10/2021 02:26:49 pm

Your rants against the degree are almost as salty as the article itself 😩😩 my cholesterol can’t take it baby x

Hugh Jass
16/10/2021 01:04:00 pm

And award for biggest Sooky La La goes to

Action for breach of privacy
16/10/2021 01:49:15 pm

In Lenah Game Meats the High Court considered the question of whether the common law of Australia recognised a tort which protects the privacy interest. Chief Justice Gleeson had the following to say:

"There is no bright line which can be drawn between what is private and what is not. Use of the term "public" is often a convenient method of contrast, but there is a large area in between what is necessarily public and what is necessarily private. An activity is not private simply because it is not done in public. It does not suffice to make an act private that, because it occurs on private property, it has such measure of protection from the public gaze as the characteristics of the property, the nature of the activity, the locality, and the disposition of the property owner combine to afford. Certain kinds of information about a person, such as information relating to health, personal relationships, or finances, may be easy to identify as private; as may certain kinds of activity, which a reasonable person, applying contemporary standards of morals and behaviour, would understand to be meant to be unobserved. The requirement that disclosure or observation of information or conduct would be highly offensive to a reasonable person of ordinary sensibilities is in many circumstances a useful practical test of what is private."

Comments getting deleted again
16/10/2021 02:16:21 pm

Why

Confused
16/10/2021 02:20:48 pm

Deleted the comment of the person claiming the article was about them where they are defending themselves. Lol only DM is allowed to make allegations about students and doesn’t even let them stand up for themselves. Talk about cutting people down!

Marked for deletion
16/10/2021 02:54:52 pm

Saying goodbye to this thread in 3, 2, 1

Re: Marked for deletion
16/10/2021 02:58:38 pm

It's been an honour commenting with you gentlemen

Unbiased “Reporting”
16/10/2021 02:40:36 pm

Seeing as you deleted the comment from the person this article is about, surely it would only be fair to give this person a chance to address what was said? Of course that’s only if they want to. You can’t go writing these kinds of pieces and NOT give the person a chance to address the allegations you’re making or provide they’re side of the story. This isn’t even journalism it’s just a shitty gossip blog at this point. As mentioned you had a chance to write a decent article about clerkships and contribute something genuinely useful (I know - DM and useful in the same sentence) but it’s been squandered by a personal, petty vendetta. The least you can do is give this person a chance to address these claims rather than deleting the comments from them and the ones calling you out. Isn’t it funny how the author of this piece wants all comments removed that discuss who they are but is happy to put another student on blast? It’s not fun when it’s being done to you is it, and I’m sure you’d like a chance to defend yourself. Shame you don’t afford others with that opportunity.

Green-eyed monster
16/10/2021 02:58:55 pm

"We are genuinely concerned about this as a manifestation of the toxic, hypercompetitive behaviour". Because this article, baseless by its own admission, doesn't exacerbate this at all, does it?

This isn't journalism. If anything, it's a disturbing insight into the lengths the editorial team would go to in order to harm another student's reputation. Anyone involved in the production of this 'story' should be embarrassed and a formal apology is undoubtably owed to those implicated by this fictitious narrative.

'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story', hey?

SAFE SPACE
16/10/2021 03:05:45 pm

I'm so glad the people who perpetuate this culture are not in a position to directly look after the student body through leading the LSS.


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