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Peeved with their Penultimate Peers

16/4/2021

 
Volume 19, Issue 6
Picture
Dear Peeved with their Penultimate Peers,
​

It is an amazing feat for the class of 2020 to be associated with anything beyond beginning a law degree during a global pandemic, and yet this cohort has done just that. While law school is already known for being clique-y, second years have gone above and beyond (cute lil over-achievers). But don’t fret! It’s not just the first years being shunned, but also a large proportion of their own cohort. 
A classic example being this week’s Autumn Social. The premiere event on the semester’s social calendar, you’d think this would be a great opportunity to foster collegiality amongst the cohort. And yet! Nothing says high school rubbish quite like the secret network of pres that took place on Thursday evening. Half of the class of 2020 was in the dark and uninvited, and the other half were tossing up between multiple invitations – trying to determine which south-side share house they should grace with their presence. To put it bluntly, the cliques are out of control.
Unfortunately, cliques are often inevitable, and you shouldn’t take your exclusion personally. However, if you’re feeling petty, there is evidence to suggest that while cliques wield social power, they are generally not reflective of the highest performers in any professional setting, including MLS (See Crowley & Elster, Mean Girls at Work). Furthermore, not to sound like a sad ex-partner who’s in denial, but frankly you’re better off without them. Cliques are formed by arbitrary, non-substantive similarities (e.g., attending the same high school in the Eastern suburbs, doing a BA at UniMelb, being on the LSS, etc) and by definition, tend to lack diversity. Also, there’s nothing worse than being known through your associations rather than your actual personality. Gross. 

However, don’t give up all hope just yet. While as a collective the cohort may be trash, there’s some individual treasures to be found. Where you can, try and engage with older students one on one. Reach out to a mentor, tutor, or someone who you’re on committee with. Sounds high-key predatory, but sometimes you need to separate people from the pack. Don’t make it weird. Just prioritise individual connections over trying to get in with the “popular kids”. The fact I even had to say that at grad school is bile-inducing, but some people need a reminder. We’re ultimately here to get a degree, get a job and get out. A few friends on top are a bonus. At this stage, you’d be best served by cultivating a healthy group of friends, outside of MLS.


If you do manage to get a lone second year, they’ll probably be helpful enough to pass on some hot tips and 3rd generation obs notes. If you don’t manage to capture one don’t worry - odds are someone in your year group has the link, just ask around. Otherwise, controversially, you could make them yourself? Just kidding – if you get desperate, buy a set online. 


Somewhat sincerely,
​

Your Learned Friend.

The views in this article do not necessarily reflect the views of De Minimis or its Editors.


I can't help it that I'm a 'popular kid'
16/4/2021 09:40:44 pm

Can I just say that we don’t have a clique problem at [Melbourne Law] school? And some of us shouldn’t have to take this [blame] because some of us are just victims in this situation.

Lol
16/4/2021 10:08:02 pm

We definitely do have a clique problem, it's worse than high school here...

Not Ms Norbury
17/4/2021 09:27:18 am

That’s probably true. How many of you have ever felt personally victimised by [a south-side living second year who didn’t offer you notes]?

she does even go here but also has a lot of feelings
17/4/2021 03:18:13 pm

🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♂️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️

Second year
16/4/2021 09:42:09 pm

Covid definitely made the cliques worse - some of the supposed welcoming aspects of MLS (*cough* LSS *cough*) are easily the worst offenders as well.

Best to just study hard and keep your down - finding someone you can study with and share the load is a huge help though! Don't stop trying :)

confused
16/4/2021 10:00:36 pm

How does having pres = a clique?? Are people obliged to invite everyone in the year level every time they hangout with friends?

not kevin rudd
16/4/2021 10:15:25 pm

*names have been changed.

in first year, i mentioned to a person from the careers team that i felt somewhat at a disadvantage starting a career in law bc i didnt know anyone. although i did arts. i never came across anyone who went into the jd. im not from the eastern suburbs. i went to a public school. my family doesnt know anyone in law, let alone have connections. the careers person said, "its not about who u know, its about who u are.' yeah, well that was fucking bullshit. let me explain.

i first met john* in the greetings event in 2019. we were never friends, but had a couple classes together. i could tell he was everything i wasnt. this included being a privileged person that knew a lot of the right people. while talking once, i mentioned a specific topic i had an interest in. it was something i was very passionate about. his reply was that he didnt really care about that topic. fair enough.

in 2021, i eventually applied for a junior position in a club centred on that topic. from a pretty young age i had been involved with it. i held various positions related to that topic, wrote a couple of pieces about that topic, and wanted to pursue a career in that topic. i spent so long on the application.

a couple of days later, i was at uni for a tut. i ran into the president of that group, susan*, who i had converesed a couple times with. susan informed me that i didnt get the position. my instant reaction was disappointment,. i then asked her who had gotten it. she said john. words cant really express what i felt at that moment.

i went to the bathroom and had a panic attack. over the next hour, i had trouble breathing and just cried. i missed the tut. i sobbed because at that moment i realised that i could be the most qualified person in the world, but people would only ever see me by what i wasnt: a rich kid with connections. it didnt matter who i was because it mattered who i didnt know.

that week, i didnt go to uni once. it was all too much. but when i did eventually go back, i ran into john on my way to the bathroom. i congratulated him on the position. it was then he informed me that he had known susan since high school and they had done a couple of comps together.

every time i walk into the mls building i feel more alone and less optimistic about a successful career in law. im reminded of what im not, rather that what i could be.

so to reply specifically to the post, yes. cliques are present. theyre pervasive. and theyre sure to influence how likely you are to succeed once you leave the mls.

@not ruddy
16/4/2021 10:23:52 pm

Yo - I really feel this. It's pervasive here. Anyone who tells you different is lying to themselve and you. It's pervasive in workplaces as well. But I don't think that's any reason to give up - there are more of us than them. And the more of us that sneak into the firms, or take the lss positions, or whatever, the more likely we can change this culture in the future. It's bad but it's not as bad as it was 20 years ago, and it doesn't have to be this bad for others in 20 years time. The quicker people stop lying about how it's who you are and not who you know the better, the least we can do is accept the reality rather than pretend it's based on actual merit.

Graduate
17/4/2021 12:17:48 am

You have to ask yourself the question: do you want to get pursue a job at a firm that focuses on your connections (secondary and tertiary education; extra-curricular engagement) only and doesn’t see you holistically as a dedicated student with varied experiences (a small part of which is made up by working in societies like UMSU or LSS or MJIL)? If you seek to clerk at firms or be employed at firms that make a big deal about what position you held at some student society, don’t cry foul about that. There are plenty of firms and other legal opportunities that only view participation in societies or clubs as evidence of a collaborative and disciplined character

not kevin rudd
17/4/2021 08:47:53 am

@not ruddy

thank you for the attempt to give me hope, but i havent had any for a long time. like you said, the reality is you are either in or out. there is no middle or third option. unfortunately, i am not in, and i most likely never will be.

Nasan
16/4/2021 10:36:08 pm

It makes it easy to filter out the crap at least :)

I hosted a South Side pres
16/4/2021 10:49:29 pm

Sorry babes can’t fit 300 people in my house for pres and I’m not inviting some random I have never met into my house xxx

You're part of the problem
16/4/2021 11:10:59 pm

Literally the type of person @not Kevin Rudd is talking about - sorry babe xxxx

not kevin rudd
17/4/2021 08:36:00 am

@you're part of the problem

although i do appreciate the support, this isnt really the kind of behaviour im talking abt. while it would be nice if the cliques were inclusive in private social gatherings, it is definitely their right to choose who they invite into their homes.

more so what im talking abt is things that should be based on merit, but are instead based on connections.

My hatred of deminimis is enduring
16/4/2021 11:14:41 pm

MLS definitely could be less cliquey but also this is a really hot take on “divisiveness” from a gossip rag that literally ran an article during the height of anti-Asian racism about how Chinese international students shouldn’t be allowed at MLS so...

Paying attention?
17/4/2021 12:02:56 am

"the height of anti-asian racism" if you think that that was the height of anti-asian racism, you've been asleep. Just because social media influencers finally cottoned on to the concept doesn't mean it wasn't happening before, and doesn't still exist since. Also Chinese people are not all Asian people lol. The article was dumb, and banning Chinese students is obvs not the solution to the Chinese government's human rights abuses, but let's not stop critiquing China because "racism". If half of you banging on about China actually gave a real shit about Asian people we'd hear more about Myanmar and the plight of the Burmese. But we don't, why is that? White people's silence on Myanmar is true anti-asian racism.

Why don’t you take some initiative
16/4/2021 11:27:26 pm

Does this first year expect us to approach them in the mezzanine with a print+binded obs checklist?

Come speak to us, say hi, I’m sure we’d be more than happy to help.

Graduate
16/4/2021 11:42:44 pm

Cliques at MLS? Of course they exist. You’d be silly to think they don’t. Same undergrad cliques; same high school cliques; same political affiliation cliques; same art interest cliques; same law journal cliques; same favourite reality tv show cliques etc.

So you didn’t get invited to some pres... so what? Did you still enjoy the Autumn social? Did you still get to talk to some of your classmates and colleagues? Did you get a chance to let your hair down? Isn’t that more of a win? Don’t stress about not being invited to some event which only serves the purpose of making people scrolling through Insta stories feel anxious and insecure.

You missed the point
17/4/2021 01:26:17 am

Yes the cliques suck. But can't help but feel like this is written from someone who feels shitty about not getting an invite to pres or having notes handed to them.

The real reason some cliques in second year are so terrible and should not be associated with, is because they provide a nice safe haven for priveledged boys to recieve no consequences for their misogynistic, sexist dialogue and sexually predatory behaviour. Far too many girls have experienced uncomfortable advances, barrages of messages, invasions of privacy, hands on shoulders and backs and waists, unwanted kisses on cheeks and lips, grinding on a dance floor, pulled arms and wrists into embraces they didn't want. Being a 'popular' boy with lots of friends does not make your classmates and colleagues your playthings, and no, it is not all in good fun. And the girls that look the other way when they see these shady interactions from their male 'friends' without calling them out, in order to stay a part of the popular group, are just as culpable as the boys themselves. Do not associate just for the sake of popularity.

“boys will be boys”
17/4/2021 02:30:34 am

This! I’m sure many of us have heard the stories about some of the second year boys behaviours, or witnessed it ourselves. It’s shocking to say the least. The fact that they’re in such close knitted circles is why they can get away with it, they’ve got a strong support system backing them.

What are you on about
17/4/2021 07:51:46 am

In my experience, I’ve never seen any of these second year boys you mention do anything even remotely ‘shocking’. Instead of painting them all with the same brush, care to mention what you’re actually talking about?

A confidant of sexually harassed and assaulted female classmates
17/4/2021 10:20:38 am

Absolutely!! So @ ‘what are you talking about’, obviously for confidentiality reasons I’m not going to name names on such a public platform (#mobmentality) but I can say for a fact that a number of the second year boys have sexually harassed and assaulted women at MLS. Prime example: orientation events and law camp 2020. If you haven’t noticed it you probably don’t interact with your peers very often or you don’t understand what constitutes sexual harassment and assault.

PC Principal
17/4/2021 11:06:09 am

https://youtu.be/wXF8MIG_HQI

what to do?
17/4/2021 01:29:40 pm

speaking as someone not within these problematic cliques / social circles, how are we outsiders meant to push back against whats happening..especially if they're giving the whole cohort a bad rap

Call it out
17/4/2021 05:04:27 pm

@what to do, just call it out if you see anything untoward. If this is met with backlash, escalate it. People should know when their actions aren't ok and they should learn from these experiences.

What Happened?
17/4/2021 01:17:36 pm

Really unsure as to whether or not people being invited to a pre-drinks event is the best example to cite of cliques making the second year cohort so 'trash'. Cliques are a big problem, sure; we all hate it when someone qualified gets passed over for an opportunity just because another applicant was friends with the decision maker. That said, a private event in someone's home seems like the appropriate place to exercise that sort of discretion, right? As someone said above, is the host really expected to invite the whole cohort? To be honest, this article reads more like someone upset and feeling left out from a particular friendship group... A discussion about clique mentality is necessary, I agree, but this doesn't seem like the best way to start

a 2nd yr's 2c
17/4/2021 03:42:19 pm

- I rocked up to JD barely knowing anyone (3 ppl) and felt like there were already formed social groups consisting of b arts kids who met in undergrad
- covid made it hard in 2020 to get to know anybody
but
- since lockdown ended i 'worked hard' to put myself out there and meet people. yeah it was awkward at times, not every connection worked out but now i know a fair few people around MLS, a few of them I can say I'm really tight with
- any first year that i meet/chat with and just asks me politely for notes, i would send to them in a heartbeat
- finally, cliques are just a natural and inevitable component of human socialisation - it's present wherever you go in life. gotta learn to deal w/ them cus they're not going away

lean into it
19/4/2021 04:59:23 pm

Totally agree with @a 2nd yr's 2C. Had a similar experience through covid and only knew a handful of people from undergrad so was quite nervous about the cliquey-ness of it all. I had to get proactive about it and (sometimes awkwardly) send friend requests to people I barely knew, butt into conversation circles, and message friends-of-friends asking if they wanted to hang out.

No one is responsible for your social life but you. It's unfair to blame cliques (a very normal thing in a small cohort like this) for excluding you or giving you FOMO. And in my experience, 90% of the time when you get proactive about making friends you have something to show for it.

This one's on you! Next time host your own pres.

No Comment
22/4/2021 05:43:19 pm

What a read. Grow up. 😂


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