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On China

18/3/2021

 
Issue 3, Volume 19

Anonymous


*Content warning: genocide, sexual assault, racial violence, anti-China sentiment.*

From the early 1960s, until the end of Apartheid in 1991, governments, institutions, and individuals stood against the disgusting racism of a white supremacist South African system. Something that I did not know until I started researching this article was that this University was at the forefront of the anti-apartheid movement in Australia, with an activist group called Student Action founded after the Sharpeville massacre. 

It was recognised that apartheid was an abomination, and that every civilized human being had a moral responsibility to resist it in whatever way they could. Students and faculty boycotted South African cricket matches and South African economic products. Universities and academic journals around the world prevented South African participation in their institutions and publications. Of course, they were accused of politicising sports, and science, and art. However, it was not the anti-apartheid movement politicising the world – it was the South Africans, by politicising our common humanity. 
​

The brave activists who walked through these halls ahead of us did this even when the Australian Government cravenly supported South Africa. However, over the decades, their few voices rose to a crushing volume, and eventually forced a change here and around the world. It is now recognised that the political pressure exerted on South Africa, particularly from close trade partners, was essential in ending apartheid, in the last country in Africa under white minority rule. 

It is my belief that a similar situation has arisen in the world today.
Before I make the argument I am about to make, let me get a few things out of the way. I know some random commie in the comments is going to scream ‘bUt IrAq!’ or some bullshit. As a citizen of a country other than Australia, I’m not really affected by such blatant whataboutisms, but still. The Invasion of Iraq by the West was bad, but at least it arguably had good intentions. Toppling a brutal dictator, and staying for years afterwards to try to build a better country, are not the actions of the stereotypical villain. I can acknowledge that, while still opposing the war and its consequences. 

Anyway, as I was saying, there is a similar moral outrage happening today, as happened with apartheid. The People’s Republic of China, under the leadership of the evil CCP, is committing a genocide of the ethnic minority Uyghurs of Xinjiang. 

Now, I know some asshole is going to be in the comments, calling me a shill for the CIA. However, most people would agree that the genocide is proven. The Chinese Government isn't even really trying to hide it. 

I know we are all familiar with what is going on. Still, I think I should talk about some of it, so that people remember just how awful it is. There are huge camps in the countryside, where Muslim prisoners are separated from their families and children. They are brainwashed to love Xi Jinping and the Communist Party. They are forced to work to make things that are then exported to the rest of the world for cheap. One case covered recently by the BBC concerned a woman who reported she was kept in an all-women part of the prison. Every night, women would be taken to special rooms built in the prison camps, where there are no cameras. They were then raped and sexually tortured by guards and other men who came to the prison to have sex with the prisoners. 

This is genocide. One of the worst crimes in the world in recent decades, and yet the world does nothing. Why? Money, of course. Most people and institutions are willing to admit that this genocide is going on. But think of how expensive it would be to do anything about it! How pathetic. I almost can’t believe my ears when people say this to me. 

It is time for the world to find its backbone again! I am not advocating an attack against China or anything like that. Instead, I am advocating the same thing as the world came together to do to oppose apartheid: it is time to boycott China. 

We’re always told by our business interests that this is an impossible solution, and that we depend on China for our way of life. However, until the 1990s much of the world (including Australia) did no business with China. Many people aren’t aware of this. Perhaps I only know because I’m an outsider. Back then, the lot of most working people was actually better than it is now. Yes, people had less plastic crap everywhere, but there was wage growth and less inequality. Most of the benefits of doing business with China have gone straight to the big end of town. 

Now we get to the part of the article where I am going to get myself cancelled, and why I chose to write this anonymously. I am calling not only for my fellow students to rise up and boycott Chinese products. I am also calling for Melbourne Law School and the University of Melbourne to do so. That means, not collaborating with Chinese universities, not accepting money from the CCP (which they do through the Confucius Institute), and not accepting Chinese students. 

Now, I have nothing against my Chinese classmates. I am friends with lots of them. Still, the CCP needs to learn that by committing genocide, there will be consequences for the Chinese people. Only the people of China can fix this problem – it is their responsibility. I don’t think the rest of the world should intervene directly. However, Australia should also not give access to the CCP and pretend like everything is okay. Education is a valuable commodity – why should we trade it with a country that is doing such evil? 

Do I have faith that things will change? Not really. Institutions like the University of Melbourne are greedy for Chinese money. The Australian Government too, even though China won’t allow a transparent investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic. Maybe this will be the final straw, but I would not bet on it.

Still, I have some hope. Things cannot keep going the way they are going. We need to show the strength shown by the anti-apartheid activists, and that starts right here at Melbourne Law School.​
*** *** ***
The views in this article do not necessarily reflect the views of De Minimis or its Editors.

Comment from the Melbourne China Law Society:
The Melbourne China Law Society acknowledges the discrimination that international students, particularly those from China, have faced in Australia in recent times. We all have a right to feel safe, especially at our University. Being separated from families and friends back home, Chinese international students deserve a support system within the JD community here and it is our obligation to foster that support system.

We believe we speak on behalf of the MLS student body when we say that we do not support discrimination of any kind, nor do we support the use of public platforms at the school to spread messages of discrimination. We would like to express our support for the Chinese international students going through a difficult time due to the racism they have faced, especially in the midst of the pandemic.

We hope that Chinese international students do not feel alienated by the anonymous author’s sentiments and would like to extend our support to the international student body at Melbourne Law School. Please do not hesitate to reach out to the MCLS if you have been affected by the article and need someone to talk to. We are here for you.

Finally, we would like to remind all students at MLS of our responsibility under the Student Charter to create a safe, supportive, inclusive and diverse study environment. We all deserve to be treated with respect, equity, fairness and consideration by all members of the University community, and to treat each other as such.

Melbourne Law School declined to comment on this article.
?
18/3/2021 07:20:51 pm

comments bouta get spicy yall

De Minimis Editer
18/3/2021 07:34:40 pm

"we moderate the comment section and delete comments that display prejudice as to race, sexuality, gender, sex, religion, creed or social origin."

De Minimis Editor
18/3/2021 07:36:20 pm

happily however we may post and circulate articles that display prejudice as to race, sexuality, gender, sex, religion, creed or social origin

?
18/3/2021 07:44:24 pm

LMAOOOOOOO

CWN
18/3/2021 07:41:11 pm

There is an important conversation to be had about the atrocities being committed in Xinjiang, and this is not the way to have it.

This article is poorly written, poorly argued and deliberately incendiary in its blatant racism, particularly as directed against our international students from China. In my opinion, it does a disservice to its apparent “point” by purposefully tanking the conversation before it can even begin - this is both disrespectful and incredibly unhelpful.

Considering the awful news we have just had about a racist attack against Asian women in the US, today was not the day for this article. De Minimis should have done better with this, and I think they failed in their responsibility to their fellow students.

X
18/3/2021 09:42:11 pm

Blatant racism? Where?
A discussion about geopolitical relations with a world superpower currently committing a genocide against a minority is not somehow inherently racist. It certainly COULD be, but I did not see this here.
We need to be able to separate our conversations about the legitimacy of actions of foreign states, and how we treat people.
I think most decent people are capable of condemning China and condemning racism against Chinese people in the same breath. These things are not mutually exclusive.
We’re fortunate to live in a strong liberal democracy that allows us to speak out about the atrocities our own governments, and the governments of our allies, have committed.
Why anyone would want to silence our ability to speak out against the atrocities currently being committed by a global superpower is totally beyond me.

Cerises
2/4/2021 01:22:11 am

I would like to acknowledge that the situation in Xinjiang is worth concerning. However, I do believe that the word of “genocide” is being inappropriately used here and it is genuinely inaccurate.

I believe we should not form our claim based on Newspaper like BBC as they may have their hidden political purpose.

Furthermore, there is no such evidence which can firmly point towards the existence of genocide.

Based on my person experience in China, it is very hard to say genocide is really happening in China. There are Halal restaurants in every university established specifically for Uyghur students. Uyghur are much more likely to be selected as government officials than Han Chinese (in China, to become government officials, one has to get pass a series tests). And Uyghur students are being awarded with extra marks in the University Entrance exam.

What I seek to claim here is that genocide is not being proven by any solid evidence and fact. Without genocide being proved happening, how can you make such racist claim against Chinese people.

k c
3/4/2021 11:30:00 am

there is no point in arguing about this,

If this person believes in BBC propaganda, or grows in Great Britain watching BBC every day, he/she/they is going to believe in it.

just wait another 20 or 30 years, the truth will come out.

it's like the 1 child policy horror story, it's the same thing.

cheers,

k c

Samantha
8/4/2021 03:51:16 pm

Yes, thank you for raising these important points. I think we can both be sympathetic to the author’s intention and point out the shortcomings of this argument. Irrespective to age and experience, we’re all students, and so this is also a chance to learn from each other and communicate respectfully.

The author is correct that the plight of the Uyghurs deserves far more attention and concern than it’s getting, and we should encourage speaking out about important issues like this. The article fails to grapple with really any of the complexity surrounding, what are by all accounts, acts of genocide. The rest of the world is obviously struggling to help the Uyghurs people as well, partly due to the limited reporting that has been feasible. It’s got nothing to do with our classmates, any other Chinese international students, or whether or not the university is willing to make a statement.

It is incorrect to assume that powerful influencers are unaware or unconcerned. If you want to get into international politics and law, the framework needs to be entirely remade so endless opportunities for thought and scholarship. Australia’s relationship with China is in a particularly fragile state; and even if that weren't the case, Australia has no ability to influence China on this issue. On top of that, international students have generally been treated poorly this past year despite their huge contribution. We can all see the predicament of the funding and revenue model for universities, so silence on the Uyghurs shouldn’t surprise anyone here.

Comparing human atrocities generally doesn't strengthen the argument that we should care about human atrocities. Practically, what are the common features of the Apartheid experience that might offer some insight in addressing the Uyghur genocide? None, apart from a fact of systematic oppression. China is not a democracy, human rights are not a state priority, and beyond that are expressly a non-negotiable issue. Obviously that doesn't make genocide okay, but it does create a uniquely difficult scenario (and...consider the track record in addressing genocides since WWII) that is reinforced by the same conditions that silence the voices of people affected.

Finally, the long-ignored and sharply increasing frequency of anti-Asian violence is arguably a more pressing concern for us as individuals and as a community. Any definition of community that resonates to you. But, there's need to be defensive in support of anon's views, because the frustration is warranted and this is a perfect space to figure out what drives us.

The blunt version: the author's argument is weak and demonstrates immaturity, and that's okay! But it also perpetuates a dangerous (and entrenched) culture of xenophobia and ignorance, so we should call that out.

Yuck
18/3/2021 07:49:15 pm

Very unsettling that this person is amongst my peers at MLS... pls do better and educate yourself, develop some empathy and maybe work on your writing skills too !!! x

Not kevin rudd
18/3/2021 07:59:47 pm

I mean this in a sincere and non-provocative way - what do you mean by 'educate yourself?'

not kevin rudd
18/3/2021 07:56:31 pm

OP and others kevin rudd is an excellent source on how to talk about china with the nuance it deserves.

the argument of 'china bad' or 'look at what australia does to refugees' are really non-starters. two things can be true at once. australia can have an atrocious refugee policy, AND we can condemn the acts of china in xinjiang.

i find the connection between criticising china and criticising chinese ppl (specifically students) to be very puzzling and difficult to reconcile. on the one hand, no chinese student in the law school (i presume) has had an active role in what is occuring in xinjiang. it would seem to me to be unfair to bar them from studying at mls simply because of their nationality. on the other hand, the sensitivities of chinese students should not be a reason for us not to talk about this topic. if that happens, we are essentially saying that the feelings of chinese students are above an honest and open dialogue about something that is occurring right now and can almost be called a silent genocide. the answer to me seems to be what i started this comment with: nuance.

Also not Kevin Rudd
18/3/2021 09:47:56 pm

I really agree with your comments. We’re all privileged and educated people - we should be able to separate condemnation of China’s actions from condemnation of Chinese people. It seems totally disingenuous to suggest that this conversation can’t take place without hurting the feelings of Chinese people in Australia (many of whom, I feel safe in assuming, would be likely to agree with the proposition that the Chinese government needs to be strongly deterred from their current path, and that given China’s lack of democracy this work may be better done by trade partner boycotts than citizens protestations).

Not kevin rudd
19/3/2021 09:34:04 am

its a rly difficult question to answer: how do we, as a (maybe) middle power affect change in the worlds second most powerful country?

your comment that chinese citizens are unlikely to bring this about so we must use trade is interesting. i might disagree with that though. china is increasingly taking steps to be self-sufficient: prioritising SOE, ridding itself of the US dollar and placing less emphasis on manufacturing exports. of course in a globalised world, no country can be entirely self-sufficient. they still need to get oil from somewhere (though i suppose this is where the BRI comes into play).

my point is that as long as china remains a vital economic partner for most countries (inc. australia), they are unlikely to impose any sort of trade sanction - considering the cost opportunity and what not. money in ur pocket can rly make you toothless.

i rly only see change coming about from within china. this, i think, is why its important to continue educating chinese students when they come to australia. im not talking abt indoctrination and 'china bad.' what i mean is showing them why accountability and truth are important. maybe this means they start a conversation with other ppl if they go back. and maybe that conversation can lead to change.

im definitely an optimist. but at the same time, xi jinping isnt as invincible as he thinks he is. we saw this at the start of the pandemic when many citizens were angered at the failings of the pandemic response system. so maybe if enough ppl are concerned with the truth, we may see some change.

Good intentions
18/3/2021 07:59:54 pm

Maybe the evil CCP is also with good intentions and trying to build a better country, so I guess they are not a stereotypical villain either.

Genocide = stereotypical villain
18/3/2021 09:50:47 pm

Jesus Christ, a genocide is being committed on our watch and we’re thinking about China’s intentions?

GOOD INTENTIONS
18/3/2021 10:09:12 pm

If you missed the sarcasm, sorry I forgot to highlight the 'good intentions' with inverted commas.
Or if you are being sarcastic, sorry I couldn't read it.

Lachlan
1/4/2021 08:17:58 pm

Genocide? Are you talking about Aboriginal people here in Australia, or Native Americans or Jewish in Europe???

Anon
18/3/2021 08:03:57 pm

Shit article but don't blame de min - just refute this guy's points and move on. Good job de min, the content warnings are great and seeking comment from mcls was a good call.

de minimis chef editers
18/3/2021 08:12:15 pm

thank you so much for supporting us and our efforts to spread discrimintaory content. we will continue doing our best . who wouldve thought slapping on a content warning was all it took in order to post saucier articles

3rd Party
18/3/2021 08:07:31 pm

Disgusting viewpoints, clearly this person has not evolved through time and is still living in the past. Come on, we are in the 21st century. You don’t deserve to study law and serve the justice system with this narrowed and tiny brain of yours.

Double standards
27/3/2021 09:19:36 pm

I'd like to say the same to CCP: "Come on, we're in the 21st Century."

Lachlan
1/4/2021 08:20:25 pm

Come on SCOMO! White supremacy is not working anymore in the 21st century!

DIU
18/3/2021 08:09:14 pm

As a Chinese Muslim person who grew up in China, I find this article very disturbing and disgusting. As a person who belongs to a minority ethnicity group, I have never ever experienced any mistreatment by the Chinese government, instead, I have felt very supported in many ways (which I am too lazy to explain here because I feel it is a waste of time to explain to someone who has such a prejudice on China).

The issue in Xinjiang has been very complicated, and it is very very important to know that we have to stand on different perspectives when comment on political issues. However, I have friends and families who live in Xinjiang and I can say that they are living in a quite safe environment. I personally know some of our MLS peers are actually from Xinjiang! Therefore, whoever wrote this disgraceful and biased article, educate yourself!

This is an article that full of hate comment, and I am worried about my safety as a Chinese student in MLS now. I can’t believe a law student could say sth like ‘boycotting Chinese students’! Australia is a multi-cultural country, this author is against Australian value. You need to be boycotted! Boycott racist!

little brother
18/3/2021 08:45:23 pm

Yes I too am a very happy Chinese Muslim. The glorious CCP has never harmed or hurt anyone that I know.

I have many Uyghur friends who have really enjoyed their time at the special holiday camps our government made just for them!

DIU
18/3/2021 09:04:05 pm

U r the author of the disgusting article right?

Tee Betan
18/3/2021 08:51:33 pm

As a Tibetan, I too relish the steps the glorious CCP has taken to improve my livelihood. Local party members shower us with gifts and treat us with the utmost respect. Once, the esteemed local party members even let us see the kidnapped and totally not dead Panchen Lama! Thank you CCP, and my cousin in Hong Kong also thanks you for restoring order and real people's democracy!

Diu
18/3/2021 09:04:40 pm

Educate urself ‘law student’

@DIU
18/3/2021 09:06:44 pm

ahh I see the CCP brigade have arrived!

Real Tibetan
18/3/2021 09:39:30 pm

The Dalai Lama were literally slave owners

Where does the loyalty of the pseudo woke lie now?

This ain’t it
18/3/2021 08:15:32 pm

This look is not cute on you, OP

CIA Shill
18/3/2021 08:18:19 pm

Thank you for your excellent article citizen.
You are indeed correct that Iraq was invaded with only the best of intentions (please disregard all of the other, oilless, dictatorships we have neglected to liberate, we will get around to them as soon as something valuable is discovered there). And a years-long occupation that restructured the Iraqi state and economy along neoliberal lines favourable to western exploitation was also exactly the sort of thing a stereotypical villain would NOT do!
Commendable work!

n
18/3/2021 08:19:31 pm

There is a fine line between simple bigotry and outrage fuelled by a sense of moral righteousness.

Passion and conviction, as important as they are for an advocate, must be tempered by and combined with critical analysis in order to make a real contribution. This is what we're in law school for.






wtf
18/3/2021 08:26:33 pm

I’m going to put in as much effort into this comment as OP put into their “research”

Random commie in the comments
18/3/2021 08:33:10 pm

You insinuate that China is an authoritarian, anti-democratic dictatorship under the "evil CCP", but you also claim that every Chinese person is somehow responsible for the CCP's actions?

Curious chain of reasoning for a law student.

By the same token, you ought to be held responsible for the historical and ongoing genocide against Indigenous Australians, and never be allowed to receive an education or study in another country again. Your white saviour complex and lack of nuance is frankly embarrassing.

P.S: bUt IrAq

DIU2
18/3/2021 08:38:51 pm

PS: but Iraq 😈

De Minimis Chef Etidor
18/3/2021 08:41:07 pm

Dear "Random Commie in the Comments"

if you would be interested in whipping up an article about cancelling austrlaian students in australian universities over historic genocide, please let us know. it would be our privilege to publish another piece in this series entitled: De-Scriminis

you can find our email on the about us page

alrighty and cheers mate

J. H.
18/3/2021 08:45:04 pm

'historic genocide' =/= ongoing genocide. Nice try tho

@ J. H.
18/3/2021 08:50:50 pm

bigotry justified on the basis of a technicality = true intellectualisticness, so smort

Adrian Zenz @ J.H
18/3/2021 09:21:46 pm

Alrighty now read post below you shrimp of an intellectual

bUt CHInA aPoloGist
18/3/2021 10:00:33 pm

Sorry, how does this author conflate the actions of the Chinese government with the actions of Chinese citizens?
Banning the export of one of our most valuable commodities to China is a perfectly legitimate reaction to a LITERAL GENOCIDE.
We have very fucking few options in our arsenal against a global superpower. If we at all believe in learning from our own past mistakes and upholding the human rights we believe in, we should use what we’ve got and this is one of those tools.
If we and other big receivers of Chinese students band together to stop the export of education, Chinese people will have a potentially non-putting-themselves-at-risk-of-being-deathcamped avenue to put pressure on the Chinese government to conform to human rights standards and regain access to education. Having a world class educated population is more valuable to China than the cultural homogeneity they are trying to achieve in Xianjing. Remember Chinese citizens don’t have the right to criticise their own government that we take for granted (as we should!). This is something we should and can do - or at the very least, have the conversation.
I can’t believe someone with the privilege of a world class legal education would shut down this debate for fear that other world class legally educated people couldn’t make the simple distinction between criticising a government and its people. That’s fucking reprehensible.

Point - Missed
18/3/2021 10:44:25 pm

Specifically target and ban Chinese international students from coming to the University of Melbourne - is that your "arsenal"? Stopping them from getting an Australian education and permanent residency? Stopping them from being able to flee the CCP's dictatorship? Of all the tools, this is the one you'd pick up and use? Great work.

Stu Dent
18/3/2021 08:35:07 pm

I love that de min allows articles like this - we actually get exposed to the real sides of the people we go to MLS with, the actual good, bad, and the ugly. This is ugly, but it's great! People that can barely form a cohesive sentence go to MLS with us! It's a shame that this article probably damages valid anti-genocide movements. Whilst advocating for the boycotting of companies that use Uyghur labour is probably wise, suggesting that we punish young Chinese students is just ridiculous. Fuck the CCP, but this just ain't it chief.

XX
18/3/2021 08:39:13 pm

I am a Chinese student. I agree with you that CCP is evil and we should be allowed to have open and honest discussion about that. But CCP ≠ Chinese people. CCP and Xi are not elected by us. Chinese people are the victims of CCP.

ZZ
18/3/2021 10:06:54 pm

100% agree with this.
I thought it was pretty clear from the article and also expected other readers to believe the majority of students at MLS are capable of distinguishing between calling out China’s actions and condemning racism or discrimination against Chinese people. I’m so sad to see that people don’t think that’s possible and China condemnation should be shut down. The biggest victims of the CCP are the Chinese and I’m so horrified to see the west equating Chinese people with the CCP. You guys are not represented by the CCP and risk so much by speaking up against them. The west should be doing more to condemn their actions on your behalf.
I hope the people in this comment section are being overly cautious but, I really hope you don’t experience any negative racially motivated reactions from increasing anti-CCP awareness.
I’ve got my fingers crossed for you and your people for this century. At least some of us are rooting for you!

Hmm
18/3/2021 08:43:45 pm

MCLS criticising the article but not even acknowledging the substance ... ... ...

hmmm
19/3/2021 12:11:16 pm

You providing zero value and substance to this comment section .... .... ....

Stu Dent
18/3/2021 08:46:03 pm

How many weeks until the lss attempts to shut down de min again lmao D R A M A

Tin foil hat
18/3/2021 10:55:04 pm

Lmao ok, Stu

Adrian Zenz
18/3/2021 09:08:15 pm

This article reeks of a confused and misguided 19 year old white male struggling and desperately trying to piece a coherent worldview with a subpar understanding of politics and history.

Before you start calling for action on 'genocide' please answer 3 questions.
1. Why has the population of uyghurs has quadrupled from 1949 from 3 million to nearing 12 million following the CCP taking power?
2. Why is pretty much every minority group in China retained their indigenous dialects and scripts in addition to learning the overarching language (Mandarin) whereas indigenous languages for the indigenous peoples in Australia, America and Canada all but been wiped out?
3. Why has there been no damning evidence for these so called genocidal camps other than circumstantial evidence from interviews or reports that substantiate their claims entirely on proven false papers authored by Adrian Zenz (a literal anti-semitic, anti-gay, evangelical)?

By the way, even the Australian government (albeit very sneakily) voted against labelling the Xinjiang situation persecution or genocide.
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3125501/australian-parliament-refuses-label-chinas-xinjiang-actions

https://californiaman.substack.com/p/no-uyghur-genocide-australia-and

Another subject that goes unreported ‒ the international response and investigation outside the anglosphere:
https://preview.redd.it/i5f7bo6rsml51.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2c4cb489b084c8bdbcd0b4c76a4a03f65459e701

Shitty footage of facilities and warehouses? If you have been to a school or any factory/warehouse in China they all look identical.

Did you know that Xinjiang is open for tourism? You can literally walk the streets and see literally every second person is distinctly Uyghur walking out there in the open. Mosques being destroyed?

Footage of Xinjiang (literally mosques in sight). More on his channel too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoRjedCejjs

On the western interpretation of Xinjiang being open:
https://scontent.fmel15-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/135355714_285649653015566_8165544455891197430_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=xQxMpWbyEJMAX87uaKl&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel15-2.fna&oh=a6b86e1751621689cb37f31213c5f472&oe=6076F067

On the images of supposed 'ughuyrs in camps'
https://preview.redd.it/ucxh2lsssml51.png?width=681&format=png&auto=webp&s=7c9347e44d6aa646acfc81b41a3253bf095ddea8
https://twitter.com/Sky_Blue168/status/1286078116096389120

Real Uyghurs:
https://www.facebook.com/jacksonpokhrel7/videos/3618058614957135

Fake Uyghurs:
Tursunay Ziyawudun (alleging rape and torture in the camps) interviewee to multiple western reports:

February 2020: "I wasn't beaten or abused. Hardest part was mental."
https://bit.ly/2MQErny

February 2021: "I was gang-raped on three occasions"
https://bit.ly/2MMXH5u

Yes those contradicting articles had since been removed when the publishers realised.


On the historical pattern of the western sphere's willingness to spread misinformation and justify war:
https://scontent.fmel15-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/145019825_305772221003309_2662442588149052203_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=1ZbqrNkt67IAX9Zjw1w&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel15-1.fna&oh=06c30fef7bbab0d314cef4b8b05a9980&oe=6077ACC3


Not directly related, but typical misrepresentation present in 'free press':
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwsiJ-FUUAAa3d3?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ewsic_5VkAMazNd?format=png&name=small

You:
https://i.redd.it/s7lu0r6ukqn61.jpg

https://scontent.fmel15-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/156940621_325076215739576_672913447270455915_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Zs_kRJjPzBAAX_v-1pr&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel15-1.fna&oh=c3deb446522af5730c9dab2751f15662&oe=6076ED6A

MM
18/3/2021 09:19:23 pm

Ahhh, the DM comment section. Not only do you find genocide denial, but rape victim blaming as well! Classy, little brother.

Genocide denial
18/3/2021 09:20:03 pm

Oh great, the genocide deniers are here... Do you feel better than everyone else because you see through the western media's "lies"?

Most of your links are to Facebook - check yourself big guy.

Adrian Zenz might not be a great person - that does not discredit the entire argument or prove that genocide isn't occuring.

Australian parliament not recognising genocide might have something more to do with, hmm idk, trade? economics? national security?

It's like these guys are wilfully blind - please read last year's DM from an actual Uighur student.

Tankies that deny genocide and human rights abuses are literally just as bad as the nuffie that wrote this article.

Adrian Zenz @Braindead Denial
18/3/2021 09:29:04 pm

Haha yes the ad hominem attacks when you can't refute any single point.
Facebook posts were memes... or pictures.
Most of the actual sources are actually listed on the bottom left.

"actual uyghur student" first of all that whole submission was anonymous, second of all did you know I'm actually Adrian Zenz debunking my own papers, my name says so.

You wanna see why his papers are problematic?
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

Answer me please without using the word 'tankie' you cretin.

Okay dude...
18/3/2021 09:44:27 pm

Caring about human rights is normal - scrambling to find sources to debunk human rights abuses is not that normal dude. Are you okay?

Adrian Zenz
18/3/2021 10:36:20 pm

Fair enough, I agree its normal to care about human rights.
But my question is why don't you do a little research if you actually do care about human rights?

Complex issues like this are politically charged and if you cannot separate the certain real problems (which I believe there are many in China) from completely artificial ones, then what are you doing?

My issue isn't with those who are genuinely interested into human rights abuses. My issue is that there is a concentrated effort into disparaging China (CCP or otherwise) that comes under a false pretense of social justice. My issue is that this kind of narrative is falsely and continually perpetrated by the media. My issue is, that as an Australian born of asian background, that these political issues, many unfounded and many false, cause generalisations and attacks on every asian, some of them that became a little more real to you guys today with the news, but has been very real with me since always. My issue is that I would go back to visit my relatives living happy and fruitful normal lives, and come back here and see my high school geography teacher who authored many books and atlases very confidently tell me that Chinese people had no rights whatsoever and my Aunt wasn't allowed to have a single child unless the factory boss let her because that's how the party planning in the CCP worked in 2010. My issue is that the large majority of people (such as OP - case in point) who care little about the actual problem at hand, weaponize these issues to further their hatred towards people like me. That's why I care enough to spend time researching this.

Mmmm
18/3/2021 10:44:29 pm

Wait so your response to some high school hang-up is to....deny genocide? Am I missing something in your sob story?

Adrian Zenz
19/3/2021 07:19:31 pm

Yeah you're missing the part where you can address any of my real points and give me some evidence of a genocide occurring.

Converted
20/3/2021 12:25:59 am

Hi Adrian,
Thank you for posting these sources and providing nuance.
I was wondering, what is your position on the CCP's takeover of Hong Kong? Is that also nuanced?
Thank you.

Adrian Zenz
25/3/2021 09:42:13 am

No problem.
Hong Kong is definitely a nuanced situation as it goes towards the psychology of the populations there ans the geopolitics behind it. Despite a large proportion of the younger generation growing up with cognitive dissonance, a large proportion of the population, particularly the older generation who actually were lived under British rule supported the HK police force, wanted the PLA (Chinese army) to come in, and were strongly against the riots and violence on the streets. This again was unreported in any form of western media. Currently it has ended with Hong Kong enacting new security laws and all the foreign funded (NED and Mike Pompeo at the time) activist leaders escaping or being locked up. I can also give you a lot of evidence on the foreign funding as well.

If you want to know why the riots needed to be stopped:
https://youtu.be/A8_YW8SkYBs
His channel also has a lot of content and nuanced information on the topic.

As well as the basic fact that a "return to democracy " is not possible as during Britain's 100 year colonisation of Hong Kong up to 1997, a forced, hostile takeover in order to export opium into China and take advantage of the ports for trading, every single governor who held every executive power was appointed directly by the British crown. There really wasn't any democracy to begin with on a territory that was forcibly invaded and taken over. So after being handed back to China peacefully, a feat in its own right, China had still let the territory self govern under one country two systems, one of its kind globally. Which other country would let a sovereign territory self govern in that way?

converted
25/3/2021 11:29:17 am

Thank you for confirming my suspicion.
The mental gymnastics and moral false-equivalencies in your response confirm my suspicions that you're an authoritarian/CCP apologist. (And the reference to some ideological YouTuber... god damn. It's like referring to a boring Alex Jones.)
No side of any political/social/moral contest is without some fault. But when you've staked out a position defending the CCP's take-over of Hong Kong, you're morally bankrupt.
The original article invaluably revealed the kind of students we have silently in our midst at MLS. Potential party-apparatchiks. FML

Adrian Zenz
28/3/2021 02:03:33 pm

Nice one, you got me! Haha! That's right I'm a government employed CCP bot. Not one bit of valuable argument or debate. Painting every opposing view as 'morally-bankrupt' and using outdated anti-communist jingoistic terms. Classic example of an intellectually bankrupt idiot. Counter the arguments not the person, then you won't have to stretch your brain to defend your empty ideals.

Can you shed some light on how CCP has 'taken over' their sovereign territory? Have you been to Hong Kong personally? Do you have relatives who lived in fear and chaos and had their shops looted and burned down during the year long protests?

As a young lib of age 21-23 that's never traversed to the other side of the world, how much do you inflate your own self righteousness and self worth?

@ Adrian Zenz
31/3/2021 07:40:20 pm

The irony of claiming ad hominem and then proceeding to ad hominem

Rupert's Henchman
18/3/2021 09:33:04 pm

In a 2018 report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination – often misrepresented in Western media as a UN-authored report – CHRD “estimate[d] that roughly one million members of ethnic Uyghurs have been sent to ‘re-education’ detention camps and roughly two million have been forced to attend ‘re-education’ programs in Xinjiang.” According to CHRD, this figure was “[b]ased on interviews and limited data.”

While CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals.

Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.”

Applying these estimated rates to the entirety of Xinjiang, CHRD arrived at the figures submitted to the UN claiming that one million ethnic Uyghurs have been detained in “re-education detention camps” and two million more have been “forced to attend day/evening re-education sessions”.

Thanks to questionable sources like the CHRD, the United States government has accused China of “arbitrarily detain[ing] 800,000 to possibly more than two million Uighurs, ethnic Kazakhs, and other Muslims in internment camps designed to erase religious and ethnic identities.”

Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 2018, State Department official Scott Busby stated this this “is the U.S. government assessment, backed by our intelligence community and open source reporting.”

KP
18/3/2021 09:34:08 pm

Impeccable timing of this article. Whilst the world reels in response to the mass shooting of 8 Asian women spurred by anti-Asian racism, De Minimis in its infinite wisdom decides to publish this. Very nice.

disappointed duck
18/3/2021 09:58:03 pm

feels intentional almost

infinite wisdom
18/3/2021 10:46:46 pm

all signs point to it being intentional.

disappointed duck
18/3/2021 09:57:03 pm

First off, way to piss off a demographic that basically makes up half our uni and funds your degree. This is also a terribly written article. The author needs to get a grade 2 English lesson. He is grossly misinformed. Discourse about the Xinjiang situation is fine, but it is a complex discussion and this is not the way to discuss it. This article is clearly and inherently a racist piece that has no intention of informing or encouraging proper discussion, but a glorified and long prejudiced reddit comment.

Disappointed that a student organisation/body from a progressive, left-leaning uni would post this. Just because you have an obligation to post all student views, no matter how controversial, doesn't mean you post all trash and garbage. Even just ignoring the perspective, it doesn't even pass a basic grammar test. Maybe next time I'll send in an article about white supremacy, I wonder if you'll post it.

basic grammar test centre
18/3/2021 10:53:41 pm

i would think that all articles are vetted, edited, and readed by prestigious members of the de monumis before they are posted.

i can assure you that the current article has past the level 1 grammar test as it has past through the hands of such members.

dumas
18/3/2021 11:20:05 pm

I guarantee that de min would post an article about white supremacy if you could be bothered writing it

Seriously?
19/3/2021 09:39:21 am

Seriously? Just because many students are 'left-leaning' that implies any student with a non-conventional view (or, heaven forbid, a 'right-leaning' view :O) is wrong? Tell me how that's consistent with being an informed law student

Stalinist Gulag-Master
18/3/2021 10:23:18 pm

Nobody's engaged with the premise - why is CCP oppression of muslim minorities any different to South African apartheid?

Because they're not segregated you idiot
18/3/2021 10:40:04 pm

Get off reddit

4Chan Bro
18/3/2021 10:43:04 pm

They're literally being detained in mass incarceration camps, fuckhead

Uyghurs
18/3/2021 10:58:28 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C83eSHHG4vk

Damn those are some open concentration camps bro

Stalinist Gulag-Master
18/3/2021 10:33:14 pm

Well done to the De Minimis editors for publishing this, freedom of speech and the free flow of debate is the life-blood of democracy.

I'm horrified at the calls for censorship in the face of genocide.

The trigger warning is also a bit disappointing. We would never have had a trigger warning for "anti Soviet Union sentiment" or "anti Nazism Germany sentiment", and in context it looks like "Content warning: genocide, sexual assault, racial violence and anti-perpetrator sentiment"

State-endorsed racism, genocide and authoritarianism in general should always be the targets of criticism and we should never let potential economic consequences or blackmail get in the way of standing up for our principles.

Fuck the CCP, I hope Xi Xinping chokes on his own tongue.

point - missed
18/3/2021 10:41:35 pm

Specifically target and ban Chinese international students from coming to the University of Melbourne, so that they can't get an Australian education and permanent residency in order to FLEE the CCP's dictatorship. That'll show the CCP what you're made of! Good play!

Xi Xinping
18/3/2021 10:47:05 pm

Education is one of our biggest exports to China. We have the ability to leverage it to the advantage of a population experiencing a genocide - which means we have the obligation to do so.

The CCP would sooner give up their program of racial purity than become a pariah-state, so yes - that will show the CCP what we're made of.

We use the tools at our disposal. This worked in South Africa, and it could possibly work in this case. For the sake of millions in far-Western China, we at least ought to try.

Starlin Joseph
18/3/2021 10:49:36 pm

Who is Xi Xinping? Did you mean Daddy Xi?

Can we stop letting economic consequences or blackmail get in the way of calling for reparations for the stolen generation?

When can we start the tariffs against the British?

Where is the lively discussion on the ADF Afghanistan war crimes (its like right next to Xinjiang btw) itself or the legitimacy of the Iraq intervention?

Why did Biden say Trump shouldn't have assassinated the Iranian general and then rain bombs after 1 week in office?

A call to arms for free flow debate and a bit more democracy thanks!!

Ban the indians
18/3/2021 10:55:56 pm

Bro we gotta ban the indian students too, turns out 250 million indian farmers were on strike and the government fucked em in favour of the corporations!!! Gotta show Modi they can't do that to their own people, lets chuck on the tariffs ban THE INDIAN STUDENTS

Strawman
18/3/2021 11:01:39 pm

Man of Straw

TRX
18/3/2021 10:51:57 pm

Thanks De Minimis for publishing this. I imagine there was a lot of pressure not to do so, but the decision to do so was the right one. Debate is critical to the functioning of democracy and as we know from the Apartheid example the author gave, condemnation of genocide by trade partners can be hugely impactful.
We can condemn China in the same breath we defend Chinese citizens. I’m a bit worried the Chinese law students society felt the need to remind other MLS students to treat them with respect. If there’s a genuine worry that Chinese students were going to be the victim of racial slurs because of this kind of discourse - what the fuck, MLS? Who is that absolutely debased? I could not hope more that there are no examples of this type of behaviour. I strongly believe the MLS is made up of better people than that capable of exercising a bit more intellectual rigour. If not.. then maybe the education we’re exporting isn’t that valuable anyway.
Re: should Australia consider boycotting China including by ceasing export of Australian education to Chinese students, I think that’s at least worth talking about. Having a world class educated professional population who can fuel their booming economy is incredibly valuable to China, and they need the international standards and recognition of foreign degrees to maintain that. It’s more in China’s national interest to preserve that education than to keep genociding muslims. Putting this pressure on China the same way western countries did on South Africa is definitely a legitimate way for liberal democracies to wield their power to halt China’s actions. If NZ, the UK and US would consider acting with us this could be really effective.
This isn’t about punishing Chinese citizens for the actions of the CCP (who aren’t even representative of them), it’s about defending millions of muslims in Chinese detention camps who are currently being left to rot. We can and should do better by these people.

Protect Islam
18/3/2021 11:02:55 pm

Can you defend the millions of muslims in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen first bro? From the freedom bombs?

Deminimis + MLS alliance lets protect all muslims!

But god my parents always seem to complain a lot about those adidas wearing hijab wearing kebab eating terrorists

Protect Islam
18/3/2021 11:04:33 pm

But free Xinjiang tho. Free Tibet too while we're at it.

Student101
18/3/2021 11:05:33 pm

Why this article is still on? Clearly the author is a bigot white supermacist who uses his “political standpoint” to spread his supermacy and discrimination! Do not talk about if him being rational or not, he just wanted to target hatred toward Asian students and show off his superior white race! Take the article down!

J Edgar Hoover
19/3/2021 11:42:52 am

Censorship of political dialogue is not a business we deal in as a liberal democracy. We'll leave that up to the CCP and their fanboys.

reminder
19/3/2021 12:08:31 pm

casual reminder that liberal democracy has worked wonders in australia. scott morrison doing the lords work/business for refugees asylum seekers but of course with the caveat that christians, christian priorities and christian values come first.

Long live the ‘democracy’
2/4/2021 01:59:36 am

The glorious western democratic system is evidently much more civilised than the barbaric authoritarian CCP.
Long live Australian democracy!

White Supermacist Not Cool
18/3/2021 11:12:01 pm

Prisoner descent white people, what right do you have to comment on another country and another race? You are here merely because you families are criminals and got kicked out of Europe. Your food is prisoner’s food for god’s sake. So shut up and be humble

Fight racism with racism?
13/4/2021 12:50:04 pm

Is this the best argument Chinese CCP shills at unimelb can come up with? Your food is "prisoner food' l o l okay big fella

J
1/4/2021 07:36:39 pm

I do agree with the argument against the CCP, however, your choice of retaliation unfortunately involves many innocent students who do not deserve to be denied education for their ethnicity. Perhaps this is simply because as an MLS student you felt that the MLS should take a specific action. Any economic retaliation, which I do support, should be commodity-based, e.g. iron ore, in order to avoid this issue.

De minimis bias
1/4/2021 10:01:40 pm

People who have never been to Xinjiang and China should not publish an article like this. Not true and totally rubbish. Melbourne Law School and Deminimis suck and are really low to allow this kind of discrimination punished. Free speech does not mean free expression of discrimination. This article is much beyond the free expression. The author is a racist! Demininimis should not allow this published. Never use free speech as an excuse to present fake information and your narrow view to this world!!!!

Who was in front of the tank?
2/4/2021 03:48:59 pm

Hi! It seems a valid and perhaps interesting point: to argue that people can’t comment on a topic if they have “never been” personally to the place.

I’m curious. What is your personal experience learning about the Tiananmen Square massacre?

False equivalence
13/4/2021 12:51:32 pm

I've never been to the USA, should I not have an opinion on trump? CCP shills out in full force

Some Additional Views on Xinjiang Issues
1/4/2021 10:34:18 pm

Just saw a video regarding Xinjiang Genocide issues released by a YouTuber a few hours ago. This video might provide us with additional perspectives on Xinjiang situation: https://youtu.be/WU3cpoodpIg

LOL
1/4/2021 11:22:44 pm

Yeah I've also seen something similar lol:
1. https://youtu.be/mH-0l_zToN4
2. https://youtu.be/beq9Dua4Ajk

These guys were definitely 'brainwashed' by China lmao. Anyway, we truly do need to go to China and seek truth by ourselves in the future (if possible). Otherwise, how can we know for certain which side is trustworthy?

A tale of two cities ( aka London and Paris )
4/4/2021 10:49:47 am

Hi there,

like you said "The Invasion of Iraq by the West was bad, but at least it arguably had good intentions. Toppling a brutal dictator, and staying for years afterwards to try to build a better country, are not the actions of the stereotypical villain. I can acknowledge that, while still opposing the war and its consequences."

The invasion of Iraq indeed destroyed the local citizen's life and brought casualties, but it overthrew a terrible leader like saddam hussein.

The security crackdown in Xinjiang indeed increased police presence and altered the culture and living environment, but it did overthrow the east turkistan movement's local branches aka a terrorist organization's operation sites.

i can live with that too, just like you can.

it's War on Terrorism right?

i mean I can acknowledge that while still opposing the security crackdown and its consequence.

btw, a tale of two cities is a great book, a must read.

a concerned student
8/4/2021 02:23:38 pm

I'm curious as to on which side the anonymous author and possibly the editor(s) are. China’s Ministry of Education has issued several warnings against its students studying in Australia. It seems that the author and the Chinese government are utterly united.

ha, true
8/4/2021 04:06:26 pm

and in general, oof -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-01/chinese-international-students-melbourne-law/100041814

no one here should be proud of this


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