شەرقىي تۈركىستان (East Turkestan)

29/9/2020

Issue 9, Volume 18

ANONYMOUS

I am Uyghur. I cannot visit the homeland of my people, as beautiful as it has been described, for fear of imprisonment or endangering my family. I cannot share nice pictures with my family because that will put them in more danger – if they are even alive. I have instead gathered a collection of publicly available photos in an attempt to put a human face to our people. For the last four years, my family have lost contact with family members in what is today known as “Xinjiang”. We know it as East Turkestan.

Uyghur boys, Kashgar in front of a statute of Chairman Mao

East Turkestan is our homeland and we are its Indigenous people. Any contact with my family in East Turkestan likely results in worse treatment for them; even writing this article is a risk to them. Stories of Chinese embassy officials making intimidating and threatening calls and visits to houses are common.[1] Having relatives abroad is a reason for incarceration.[2] When we contacted the Australian government to make inquiries into whether our family are alive and where they are, we were told that even asking the Chinese government these questions could put them in increased danger. As early as 2016, passports were confiscated, and our international movement was already severely limited.[3]

When Central Asia, then known as Turkestan, was divided by the then colonising Imperial powers Russia and China, it was divided into Russian Turkestan and Chinese Turkestan. Turkestan, literally “land of the Turks” in Persian, has been called Xinjiang (“New Territories”[4]) since the 18th century. We are related to the ancient Iranian peoples who inhabited the Tarim Basin in the first millennium, and to the Turkic people who moved into the area in the last 2000 years. We are the custodians of the Turco-Persian and Turco-Mongol traditions. Our colonial domination by China has meant that, since its formation as a nation-state by the Chinese Communist Party in the 1950s, we Uyghur-Turks have experienced ethnic cleansing and erasure under the Chinese Communist regime. Today, after decades of fighting for our existence, we are experiencing genocide at the hands of the Chinese President, General Secretary of the Communist Party, and Paramount Leader of China, Xi Jinping. Through leaks of government documents, there is ample evidence that he is personally responsible for directing these measures, as well as other high-level CCP members.[5]

Emin Mesjid, Turpan

“Xinjiang” is a colonial possession of China, like Tibet and Inner Mongolia. We are not Chinese, we have never considered ourselves Chinese, and despite claims to the contrary in De Minimis we did not just start rioting out of the blue on July 5th, 2009. We have always resented our national domination by China and have been rebelling since as early as the Qing dynasty, and during periodic Chinese rule before that. [6] That is why there has been a history of rebellion and two East Turkestan Republics in the 20th century, the second of which was a Soviet-backed Republic. We were no less Russian during that period than we are Chinese today.

As an almost entirely Muslim people, we frame our legitimate resistance against the Han supremacy and nationalism of the Chinese Communist Party in the moral language of Islam, just as Algerians did against the French, and just as countless other colonised Muslim peoples have. However, with the rise of racism and Islamophobia globally, it has been politically expedient for the CCP to label any resistance from us as “terrorism”. Our desires and legitimate demands for basic and fundamental rights, including freedom of expressing our ethno-religious identity, are not rooted in “terrorism” but enshrined in international law and human rights. The conflation of Muslims’ demands for their basic human rights to be met as being acts of “terrorism” is Islamophobic in and of itself and perpetuates global narratives that minimise the value of Muslim lives. While there have been many critiques of China using the same rhetoric and racist logic as the West in its War on Terror, it is important to note that China has a long history of anti-Muslim racism, just as the West does. [7]

To the author of last week’s article, “From a Xinjiang Girl”, – you recently made a video project, and the first in the series was about First Nations peoples struggle for land rights under Native Title. You think it is frankly offensive that you never spoke with a First Nations Person in Property Law. The lack of self-reflection and critical thinking, the most impressive mental acrobatics and cognitive dissonance required for both the indignance at the situation in Australia, and the horror unfolding in your “home state” is astounding. To have settled on our land, to not have bothered to learn our language, and the fact that you do not mention having Uyghur friends. The fact that many Han Chinese people live in separated communities where they are able to earn a living with completely separate facilities and opportunities. All of these things should have alerted you to the fact that you live in a settler colony.

For Chinese settlers, visiting and living in our land might be a quaint, folksy experience. We have always resented it. Han Chinese settlement into China has been part of a policy of settlement since before the Communist Revolution. While it has sometimes been to chase economic opportunities, the benefits that have accrued to Han Chinese people in East Turkestan have only multiplied at the expense of Uyghurs as a result of this policy. To imply that we have naturally come from a Han/Uyghur ratio of 70/30 to 50/50 split in less than 20 years is farcical. This is not a story of, as you put it, the corrupting influence of money and power; it is a longer story of colonisation and genocide.

To suggest that the tension is recent is to silence the Uyghur-Turk experience. One of my relatives, an intellectual during the Cultural Revolution, was disappeared for criticising the CCP and was never seen again. His body was never returned. We have faced such measures for decades. Any Uyghur will tell you of the widespread discrimination [8] in jobs and in everyday life – which have beset us for all of our PRC history. Any characterisation of Uyghur history as part of the PRC as idyllic or even-handed is a dangerous fairy tale.

You write about your upbringing and experience with your own name, while I cannot in fear of my family’s safety. You write about our land as your home, while I write yearning for a homeland that I’ve been deprived of. You get to include photos of your childhood on that land, a nostalgic privilege that was ripped from my family and me. You get to learn your language openly, while we have to learn it in secret. You got to grow up with your family whereas, once we leave, we lose all contact and connection to our families. Your family moving to “Xinjiang” to chase prosperity is no different from other British migrants and early settlers moving to Australia to chase prosperity on stolen land.

All of us, as non-Indigenous Australians, have an obligation, at minimum, to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we live. We have an obligation to understand the ongoing impacts of colonisation and dispossession. We have an obligation to reflect on how we benefit from the settler-colonial system that this country was built on. So too, do Chinese people from ‘Xinjiang’ have an obligation to acknowledge, understand and reflect on how they benefit from our colonisation, dispossession, and genocide. To write and publish a whole article without any such reflexivity is out of touch. In the next section of this article, I have tried to raise awareness of the economic, labour, demographic, linguistic and cultural policies and practices being perpetrated against us, in an attempt to spark some semblance of reflection.

Between 1 and 3 million Uyghurs – 8.3% or 25% of our total population in East Turkestan – have been put in detention camps. Up to a third of that number are in forced labour. Our culture is sanitised of any meaningful expression to serve the economic interests of the Chinese state, including through the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). The Belt and Road Initiative is a trillion-dollar project that has as a central plank the “development” of “Xinjiang” as a gateway to Central Asia and Europe. “Xinjiang” has 1/5 of all oil in China, 40% of its coal, and its largest natural gas reserves. In practice, BRI has clearly meant the “development” of “Xinjiang” to the overwhelming benefit of Han Chinese settlers, while potentially millions of Uyghur-Turks pay for their own mass detention through forced labour. Our resources are being used to pay for our own cultural destruction and genocide and going to improve the colonial Chinese state’s economic clout around the world. The significance of Chinese-occupied East Turkestan to BRI should not be underestimated and is inextricably linked to the ethnic cleansing policies of the CCP towards us.

This includes forced marriages by Uyghur women to Han Chinese men, our children forcibly being taken away and put into boarding schools or Han Chinese foster care – where they do not learn their own language or culture.

The Genocide Convention prohibits ‘imposing measures intended to prevent births within a group’ (Article II (d)), and ‘forcibly transferring children of the group to another group’ (Article II (e)). China is a signatory to the Genocide Convention. Despite this, our women are being forcibly sterilised. Birth rates in Hotan and Kashgar, major Uyghur population centres, have fallen more than 60% from 2015-2018 in Chinese government statistics. Birth rates in Xinjiang have fallen 24% in 2019-2020, compared to 4.2% in China as a whole. [9] Further, nearly 500,000 Uyghur children had been separated from their families as of 2019, according to a Communist Party planning document on a government website. [10] The separation of children from their parents, under the guise of “poverty reduction”, and with the goal of assimilating us to be Chinese, should horrify anyone who is familiar with the Stolen Generations and similar racial “assimilationist” practices in Canada and the US.

The contradictions do not end there. The preamble of the PRC Constitution states “all ethnic groups…are equal. The state protects the lawful rights and interests of the ethnic minorities and upholds and develops a relationship of equality. “Discrimination against and oppression of any ethnic group are prohibited”. Article 4 of the Constitution states all ethnic groups have the freedom to ‘use and develop their spoken and written languages, and to preserve or reform their own folkways and customs’. However, Chinese has been mandated as the language of instruction in “Xinjiang”, starting in preschool, and the use of Uyghurçe script (as in the title of this article), signs and pictures is unpatriotic and can lead to being sent to a “re-education camp”. [11]

Cultural destruction is and always has been central to attempts at genocide, although it did not ‘survive treaty negotiations in the 1940s’ to what eventually became the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. Nevertheless, Raphael Lemkin, the man who coined the term genocide and was instrumental in the formation of that Convention, held attacks aimed at the destruction of culture and identity to be the essence of genocide, as distinguishable from mass murder broadly. [12] This is no doubt why the CCP has embarked on the destruction not only of our sacred and historical sites but banned our books except for in CCP-approved journals. It is also why our scholars, intellectuals, and artists have been incarcerated. It is why poets, central to our culture and identity as in so much of the Muslim world, are also being locked up.

Altun mesjid, Yarkent

Uyghur child with naan (not “nang”)

While it is true that there were more mosques than all of Europe in “Xinjiang” at one point, it is now the case that Xi Jinping and his party have destroyed or damaged 16,000 mosques, 65% of the total and mostly since 2017. 8,500 of these have been demolished outright, the rest have had damage in some way, usually by the removal of Islamic features like domes, minarets, or gatehouses. [13] Another 30% of important sacred sites have been demolished, including shrines, cemeteries, and pilgrimage routes. [14] Islam is inseparable from our culture and yet is held to be an “ideological virus”. [15] As well, the destruction of Kashgar, the last major old city of the ancient Silk Road route since the destruction of Kabul, predates the current overt genocide attempts, and predates the rise of Xi Jinping. The razing of the Old City to make way for a rebuilt version that, according to the CCP, is safer in earthquakes. Uyghurs and Chinese conservationists had pointed out that many of these buildings had survived centuries of earthquakes, and that the buildings which had collapsed in recent earthquakes were newer, concrete buildings. The main aim is clearly the destruction of Uyghur cultural identity. [16] The thinking is exactly the same as that underpinning other settler colonial “development” drives – that indigenous peoples have nothing to contribute to modernity, and their lack of property rights is used against them. Most residents in the Old City lacked property rights. [17]

For those Uyghurs who escape being sent to the camps, a surveillance police state like no other awaits. The Global Times, a mouthpiece of the Chinese state, openly admits that Uyghurs are forced to host ethnic Chinese CCP members in their houses. [18] By the end of 2018, it claims that 1.1 million ‘civil servants’ had been ‘paired’ with more than 1.69 million Uyghurs. There is evidence of Uyghurs feeling forced to eat pork and drink alcohol, which most Muslims avoid, in order to escape being branded extremist or radical by these agents.

An electronic surveillance network, including facial recognition technology made in the West, and a network of military and police stations and checkpoints dot the entire region. [19] Iris recognition technology, phone confiscation and the downloading of data on them at police checkpoints, and all shops and restaurants in some population centres, like Hotan, must have a police officer on duty part-time. By law, every person in “Xinjiang” must download a smartphone app to track calls, online activity, and social media use. Records kept include fingerprints, blood type, DNA information, detention record, and “reliability status”. Biological information is forcibly collected under the “Physicals for All” program. [20] This is Western, racist, over-policing on steroids.

It is of course ironic that in the quest for “national rejuvenation” after the “century of humiliation” the Communist Party is engaging in an even more brutal campaign of oppression against Uyghurs than was waged during the Second Opium War. The destruction of the Old Summer Palace by Lord Elgin and the looting of the priceless works of art it contained come to mind. Except this is not merely a palace – this is the destruction of an entire peoples and their culture, traditions, history, and stories.

You write that your grandfather used to quite harmlessly don our traditional clothing as a form of cultural appropriation. This would be immaterial if we were allowed free cultural expression. Instead, our traditional music, dances, and UNESCO Intangible Heritage of Humanity-listed muqams are used to drum-up tourism for the Chinese “Wild West”. Any semblance of real ethnic divergence, anything hinting at our Turkic heritage, which is held by the CCP to encourage separatism, is sanitised. In the words of one observer, Chinese tourists “have access to this Disneyfied version of the region. It’s being exoticized at the same time as the system is annihilating that culture’. [21] What’s left of our culture is a commodified shell for Chinese consumption and appropriation. We do not want to emulate the parody and hollowness of Chinese culture which is wheeled out by the CCP as though it is somehow an example of resistance to Western imperialism. It is in fact the thoroughly Westernised, hyper-consumerist cadaver of that culture.

Since there is no prospect of China’s leaders being held to account through any international judicial organ or through widespread sanctions, it falls to those of us in democratic countries to pressure their governments to stand up to this brutality.

It means we must hold accountable leaders who have legitimised China’s actions, like Premier Daniel Andrews, who in 2017 signed onto the Belt and Road initiative for Victoria. Victoria should have nothing to do with BRI and we should not accept investment from genocidal regimes. This money is tainted with the blood of my people.

It has also been painful for me that in the time I have been at this law school, while my people and culture are being destroyed, there have been no events or seminars on the genocide and other crimes against humanity being experienced by my people. The omission is conspicuous due to events on similar horrors, like the Rohingya genocide. The scale and severity of what is happening demands a response from anyone who claims to care about justice. It seems vanishingly unlikely that the law school has not heard from any of the academics in Melbourne who understand what is happening.

You cannot know how difficult it has been to study with genocide happening in the background; to be unable to speak to loved ones, to not know if they are alive. You will not ever have to think, before going to sleep in your comfortable beds, what conditions family members are living in. You will never experience the guilt and helplessness of being unable to save your own family. You will never feel the outrage of people who claim to care about justice and human rights doing nothing to help. To read constantly about forced labour, forced sterilisation, ethnic cleansing, sexual violence and rape, and torture. To have Disney use your ethnically cleansed land for its exotic opening in ‘Mulan’.

Speeches by Xi Jinping in 2014 called for showing “absolutely no mercy” against separatism and terrorism in Chinese-occupied East Turkestan using the “organs of dictatorship”. This week, the 75th anniversary of the founding of the United Nations, Xi Jinping called the policies of the CCP in “Xinjiang” “totally correct” and made his intentions clear: to “Incorporate education about a shared awareness of Chinese nationhood into education for Xinjiang cadres, youth and children, and society” and to “make a shared awareness of Chinese nationhood take root deep in the soul”. [22]

Eid Kah Mesjid, Kashgar – the largest mosque in China. Originally built in 996 AD.

Resources:
You can see a map of the concentration and forced labour camps, as well as destroyed and damaged cultural sites here: https://xjdp.aspi.org.au.

Brands implicated:

Uyghurs for Sale (https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale)
- Including Uniqlo, Adidas, Nike, Polo Ralph Lauren, and Amazon.

Instagram:

Free Uyghur Now (@freeuyghurnow),
Uyghur Human Rights Project (@uyghurprojectig).

Donate:

World Uyghur Congress (https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/)
Uyghur Human Rights Project (https://uhrp.org)

Anonymous is a JD student.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/17/think-of-your-family-china-threatens-european-citizens-over-xinjiang-protests
[2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-18/uyghurs-detained-in-china-for-faith-not-crime-leaked-data-shows/11974738
[3] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38093370
[4] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/23/the-uighurs-and-chinas-long-history-of-trouble-with-islam/
[5] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html; https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-25/china-cables-beijings-xinjiang-secrets-revealed/11719016.
[6] Ibid.
[7] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/23/the-uighurs-and-chinas-long-history-of-trouble-with-islam/
[8] https://uhrp.org/docs/Discrimination_Mistreatment_Coercion.pdf
[9] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/china-forces-birth-control-on-uyghurs-to-suppress-population/12404912
[10] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/world/asia/china-xinjiang-children-boarding-schools.html
[11] https://theconversation.com/despite-chinas-denials-its-treatment-of-the-uyghurs-should-be-called-what-it-is-cultural-genocide-120654
[12] https://academic.oup.com/ejil/article/29/2/373/5057075
[13] https://www.aspi.org.au/news/xinjiang-data-project-website-launch; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/07/revealed-new-evidence-of-chinas-mission-to-raze-the-mosques-of-xinjiang.
[14] https://www.aspi.org.au/report/cultural-erasure
[15] https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideological-viruses/chinas-campaign-repression-against-xinjiangs
[16] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/demolishing-kashgars-history-7324895/
[17] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/demolishing-kashgars-history-7324895/
[18] https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1126378.shtml
[19] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expose-chinas-network-of-re-education-camps/10432924?nw=0
[20] https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/31/china-has-turned-xinjiang-into-a-police-state-like-no-other
[21] https://www.wired.com/story/xinjiang-uyghur-culture-tourism/
[22] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/world/asia/xi-jinping-china-xinjiang.html

Xi Jinping must die

29/9/2020 08:25:00 pm

Very powerful article. The colonial and imperialistic PRC should not be allowed to do this by the international community. It is a shame that as a consequence of Islamophobia, these atrocities are permitted to occur. We can do better, and should avoid avoid endorsing Han Chinese attempts to delegitimise Uyghur issues and identity.

In awe

29/9/2020 08:26:51 pm

This was equal parts beautiful, haunting and terribly upsetting. Should be mandatory reading in MLS.

mrwalters

29/9/2020 08:54:02 pm

Brilliantly written, tragic article. Can't imagine what you are going through right now while the world stays silent.

Ellis

29/9/2020 09:29:11 pm

Brilliant, a well written and thought provoking article. I am sorry for what your people are going through and I hope that Australia plays it's part in calling out the human rights abuses against Uyghurs.

Don

29/9/2020 10:37:20 pm

Why are you attacking the author of the previous article? No one, least of all her, is denying the atrocities committed by the communists. There is literally no reason to attack someone who is most likely an ally on this.

phil

29/9/2020 10:42:15 pm

did you read this article? it explains pretty clearly what the issues with the previous article were.

Did you read the critique?

29/9/2020 10:42:43 pm

It’s very cogently laid out why the author of the previous article is being read to filth.

29/9/2020 10:50:48 pm

Idk mate all I got from it was Han = bad. How about instead of playing identity politics we ask what the previous author should have done instead to not get attacked???

Lmao imagine only taking that from the article

29/9/2020 10:57:38 pm

And here I was thinking the LSAT had a section on reading comprehension.

ur wildin

29/9/2020 10:58:51 pm

how about genocide = bad? is that something you can understand Don? let's start off nice and simple for you

29/9/2020 10:59:04 pm

Imagine resorting to the LSAT as an argument instead of engaging with the question

give it a rest mate

29/9/2020 11:11:52 pm

your reply showed you probably don't have the capacity to engage meaningfully in the issues raised in the article

29/9/2020 11:12:54 pm

Yeah okay and no one said genocide is good? How is this an argument for attacking the previous author?

29/9/2020 11:18:27 pm

Yeah I could say the same about you mate, so far all I've got are ad hominems and no substance. What's with all the hostility

react

29/9/2020 11:58:12 pm

the substance is in the article, if you can't pick it up from the author's very eloquent explanation another comment isn't going to help you.

Where?

30/9/2020 12:26:43 pm

Sorry, didn't see where the attacks on the author were. I read that the author of this article thought that the previous article was out of touch with the genocide, but other than that, no attacks? What were they?

attack

30/9/2020 01:50:30 pm

"The lack of self-reflection and critical thinking, the most impressive mental acrobatics and cognitive dissonance required for both the indignance at the situation in Australia, and the horror unfolding in your “home state” is astounding. To have settled on our land, to not have bothered to learn our language, and the fact that you do not mention having Uyghur friends."

We support you

29/9/2020 10:45:27 pm

Brilliant and powerful piece. Thank you for taking the time and energy to respond, that must have been difficult. This was eye opening and heart wrenching - thinking of you and your family.

History has its eyes on no one

29/9/2020 10:47:38 pm

So, do the author have anything to propose? For example, an independence for “East Turkestan”, sounds like a promising pathway to HR protection? How to, and what comes next? Supposed China will just simply give up and stand aside after its independence in the most ideal world, would Aussie supply resources and infrastructures it needs for developments and feed its people while defend itself? (Btw, abc news and New York Times are not the most neutral refs we could offer, are they? No offence, just wonder.)

Are you the UN?

29/9/2020 10:53:35 pm

...and why are they expected to solve everything?

IS UN AN IRONY

30/9/2020 03:37:57 pm

Not sure if you’re using UN as an irony since you’re indicating that UN is the one capable of producing an answer, which we all know it cannot with China being one of the P5s. Like it or not. Also in lights of the media neutrality debates down here, could anyone check which media belongs to the Murdock Group and who founded the HRW? Thought they are simple questions naturally arises when comes to impartiality considerations.

Xi Jinping

29/9/2020 11:17:02 pm

Should the author have used the People's Daily instead? What "neutral" references would you recommend? Considering a lot of them seem to focus on translated documents it's not clear what your critique is.

Not clear what your other argument is either. We should accept genocide because without China destroying their culture, they'll never develop?

Not surprised you haven't put your name to your clearly Chinese nationalist views.

“Chinese nationalist”

30/9/2020 03:44:09 pm

Like the hat, but it’s not very helpful. We probably learn enough to know that the very essence of freedom of speech is allowing people have justifiable or unjustifiable opinions, and if unjustifiable, try offer arguments not rhetorical questions or hats. But still, a good hat.

good hat

30/9/2020 04:36:52 pm

Cheers

Neutral references?

29/9/2020 11:25:07 pm

If not the ABC or NYT, what? The author hasn't used Al Jazeera or Islamic coverage. Are they supposed to just use Chinese state media? What a ridiculous argument.

Just a question

29/9/2020 11:36:03 pm

If Chinese state media is so tightly controlled (I agree it is, doesn't mean they're always wrong), have you ever thought about the other side? Whether or not popular western media outlets have any kind of vested interests and funding, monopolies, government influence (or influencing the government) and lack of journalistic standards - see News Corp.

@just a question

29/9/2020 11:50:39 pm

Hard agree re news corp, and agree that we should ofc be sceptical of news sources. However, to allege that all western media sources (that seem to be in consensus over this) are wrong, or have some kind of agenda over this seems a bit conspiratorial. When the ABC, BBC, NYT, Fairfax, News Corp, Al Jazeera, CNN, BuzzFeed etc, are all reporting the same information, would one not conclude that maybe the information is correct? The majority of these news sources are based upon free and independent reporting, and the only counters are Chinese state media. Who are you honestly believing?

Hmm

30/9/2020 03:45:26 pm

“ ABC, BBC, NYT, Fairfax, News Corp, Al Jazeera, CNN, BuzzFeed etc, are all reporting the same information“, see the question?

Adrian Zenz

29/9/2020 11:12:17 pm

First of all I highly doubt you have any Uyghur blood in you.

Second of all I'd like to invite you to report to me a single shred evidence that supports the figures of 1-3 million Uyghurs in incarceration that qualifies the following conditions:
A) Is not sourced from Adrian Zenz
B) Is not funded by or has links to the NED (US Agency National Endowment for Democracy)
C) Is not a general article relying on above sources (essentially retweeting), and containing no additional information, typically pushed by your bread and butter western propaganda machines such as Nytimes, BBC, Economist, ABC.
D) isn't a shitty aerial photo of god knows what

Zenz is a German 'academic' accredited from an Evangelical theological institution who rose to fame and authority only because it suited the agenda of the "ChINaZi BaD!" narrative.
All of his research is painfully unacademic, non-evidence based and pushing an agenda. His studies on Chinese sterilization of Uyghurs is based on misquoted/falsified numbers on birth control (IUD's, which are pretty common, ask any GP or my girlfriend). He has a book on spanking god into your children and how homosexuality is the work of the antichrist. He also believes abortion/birth control is murder as well. Other
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nato-arms-industry-cold-war/

Also I expect a certain degree of intelligence from readers here. The concept of 1-3 million is basically 20-60% of Melbourne's population. The total Uyghur population is 10 million, if 3 million mostly young working age male or female were detained, that would mean essentially MOST working age Uyghur is being detained right now. This would mean the total economic collapse and a non-functional state. A simple tour/walk around any major city (which are more predominantly Uyghur populated than Han populated, at least 50-50) in Xinjiang will tell you this is not reality.
Now think about how difficult it is for the Australian government to invoke stay at home lockdown orders for COVID and pay for minimal policing, and the money spent on jobseeker/jobkeeper. Do you honestly think that the Chinese government is locking down, policing, feeding and sustaining 3 million people?
Now to put it into even more perspective, If this does not give you an idea of how ridiculous the number 2 million is, the total population of US inmates is 2.3 million. There are 1,719 state prisons, 102 federal prisons, 942 juvenile correctional facilities, 3,283 local jails, and 79 Indian Country jails as well as military prisons, immigration detention facilities, civil commitment centers, and prisons. The US prisons are also known to be constantly operating at maximum capacity. If the 2 million figure were true, there should be over 6000 structures built in Xinjiang, not a dozen or high-school sized structures.

Second of all to claim that Uyghurs have been colonised and oppressed by Chinese for millennia is to be completely ignorant of Chinese Uyghur history, the very basic notions of state that what we now know as 'China' and 'Xinjiang' had historically gone through periods of separation, war, occupation.
The Uyghurs have been subjugated by different groups time and time again, moved through different lands, and Uyghurs have allied themselves with Han Chinese states similarly often, against groups such as the Gokturks and other Turkic groups, since times as early as 300 AD.

Thus the popular prerogative to label China being imperialistic is absurd and childish. The Chinese only assert regional control with the primary aim of stability. They have never set foot far across their borders or waged wars far across the ocean. They made contact with the Australian continent centuries (Admiral Zheng was from a Muslim family) before the Europeans yet never sought to invade. They established trade along the silk road for since 200 BCE yet never used its roads to colonise.

The Chinese notion of unity = peace is an idea that has spanned across its entire recorded history, a painful lesson that has taken centuries to learn and is imprinted into Chinese culture. Whether it be through the 'oppressive dynasties' (lol imagine having upholding modern moralistic judgements about China hundreds of year ago while dismissing every other colonial/imperialistic state in mere decades past) or modern day CCP, its something that is ever pervasive and culturally ingrained amongst the people, long before the CCP was ever invented. It's also something that frustrates every western critic to their utter core and gives every second white man an existential crisis, hence the US's desperate attempts to force disruption and instability with Tibet, Hongkong and Xinjiang. For most western critics, they can't think back to their last election season, let alone reflect on mistakes from millennia past

Thirdly, the East Turkestan Independence is largely k

Are you getting a job with the CCP after uni?

29/9/2020 11:22:58 pm

Good god almighty, there's too much to unpack here. All I've got to say, is in response to this: "Do you honestly think that the Chinese government is locking down, policing, feeding and sustaining 3 million people?" Quite frankly yes, this line of reasoning reeks of holocaust denial. Organised states are highly capable of incarcerating millions of people (the US does it to blacks very easily), and China is massive and has immense power to do so. Please refrain from sucking Chinese Communist Party cock in the future, thank you.

poor form

29/9/2020 11:29:06 pm

You've not unpacked anything substantial but you definitely succeeded at sounding angry angry angry. Disappointing comment.

29/9/2020 11:30:55 pm

See when you resort to "CCP" ad hominem attacks and fail to read or comprehend the very next sentence explaining exactly why you're wrong, you know you're not dealing with a very bright brain.

Reading Comprehension

29/9/2020 11:45:13 pm

CCP may be capable of detaining all 10 million Uyghurs if they want to, but the current 're-education camps' or whatever you want to call it, clearly does not support the imprisonment of millions of people. There is no credible evidence to show that they are detaining 1 -3 million. If you get to visit Xinjiang in person, you will notice that the majority of Uyghurs are living their lives normally. (btw I am not trying to justify CCP's action)

@readkng comprehension

29/9/2020 11:53:38 pm

I apologise that I'm invoking Godwin's law but I could not resist.

Nazi Germany may be capable of detaining all 10 million Jews if they want to, but the current 're-education camps' or whatever you want to call it, clearly does not support the imprisonment of millions of people. There is no credible evidence to show that they are detaining 1 -3 million. If you get to visit Germany in person, you will notice that the majority of Jews are living their lives normally. (btw I am not trying to justify Hitler's action)

mods please

30/9/2020 12:01:16 am

@demin

I reckon you should delete this.

It reeks of genocide denial and accuses the author of not being Uyghur without any evidence, blatant and racist ad hominem attack

30/9/2020 12:03:40 am

What is your logic then? Anything that is theoretically possible to happen must have already happened?

WTF

30/9/2020 12:01:57 am

You should be ashamed of yourself advocating for genocide. Why are you even studying law?

WTF?

30/9/2020 12:09:15 am

Which sentence of his comment is advocating for genocide?

Wow

30/9/2020 12:06:05 am

Accusing the author of not being Uyghur and then jumping through hoops to justify this genocide is honestly fucked. Look hard at yourself big guy.

30/9/2020 12:16:47 am

I accuse the author of not being Uyghur because he provides zero credible evidence of him being Uyghur.
I in no way have justified or defended genocide. I am arguing that there is limited evidence to prove there is genocide in the first place.
This is not the holocaust, where the effects ravaged all of Europe. This is based on singular reports and limited aerial photography - what kind of evidence is that? Does that hold up in court?

What am I even reading

30/9/2020 08:12:46 am

Adrian, what a ridiculous argument / statements you have made. I am astounded that such low intelligence can even be associated with a legal education.

As to the author's identity, did the author not make abundantly clear that revealing their identity could result in their families' persecution, or yet their own? You should use a bit of common sense here, but from reading what you have posted I'm hardly surprised you haven't.

Secondly, what is your motivation behind vehemently trying to repudiate there being genocide? Shouldn't you take such claims extraordinarily seriously, and at the very very least give them the benefit of the doubt? Coming from heritage of Eastern European jews who sought refuge in Australia because of Nazi occupation of their country, and from Russian heritage having to flee because of the Soviet's mass purges, it's absolutely astounding for me to read the levels you go to to reject these claims; and is very offensive. Have you not learnt anything from history, or let alone a legal education - to challenge the status quo, to try and promote justice? How is challenging the author and their devastating experiences whilst trying to defend a communist dictatorship in line with the values put forth in this degree?

I can only garner from what you have written as the writings of an ignorant bigoted person who needs a good hard look at themselves.

30/9/2020 05:53:16 pm

@WhatamIevenreading
I am not 'vehemently' repudiating genocide, I'm asking for proof. Quite the contrary to what you assert I take these claims of genocide very seriously which is why I again, ask why it is acceptable to vehemently accuse a nation and a people of either committing or tolerating significant crimes with pitifully lacking evidence (see my other posts).

I sympathise for your background and can understand your emotional investment into causes such as this, which is why I invite you to read my other posts and do some digging yourself. Until more proof is given I stand by my comments.

And indeed challenging the status quo is the exact thing that I am doing - the status quo being that offering any logical debate that does not align with the anti-china narrative leads you to being virtually stoned by angry teens. It's interesting how Marxism and communism is hip for social justice warriors but resorting to bashing china for being a 'communist dictatorship' is equally trendy.

advocate:justify:disprove

30/9/2020 12:10:24 am

Is the comment attempting to advocate, justify or disprove genocide? Can someone with really good reading comprehension skills and a 200LSAT score clear the air for me here?

DISAPPROVE?

30/9/2020 03:21:42 pm

...I can’t see why a 200LSAT with proudly a fine legal mind dont understand the simple fact that Adrian (n could we stop the personal attack under this comment as it seems being continually deployed by ppl who considered themselves right? This is a bit disrespectful and disgraceful) is only asking for PROVES of what the author was alleging? He is allowed to doubt, with his arguments and data analysis. If no 200 in LSAT, at least the basic enlightenment from Evidence could lead us to a correct sequence of proof?

Chill bro

30/9/2020 05:24:55 pm

I think they were trying to be sarcastic here buddy
they are asking for someone smart (200LSAT not possible) to point out where the comment was advocating genocide (cos it wasn't)

30/9/2020 12:00:08 am

Such a powerful and thought provoking article warrants a better comment section, though the strong emotional concoction elicited by survivor guilt and righteous indignation renders civilised discourse rather unlikely.

To the author, I can hardly imagine the trauma and pain you must have experienced for the past four years. Your tenacity and resilience is admirable and I hope what you learn at the school will better equip you to fight for your people. Though I may not be able to experience your pain, I would love to hear your story and try to understand. Please contact me.

30/9/2020 12:09:48 am

Thirdly, the East Turkestan Independence is largely known to be a jihadist extremist based group. What they don't tell you is that Xinjiang sits on the Chinese border with Afghanistan, and the border region is home to other terrorist groups that they have links with, i.e. Al-Qaeda and Taliban. A large sum of fighters sent to ISIS over recent years were Uyghurs. Violence in Xinjiang from radicalised groups is a recurring issue that has happenned as recently as 2017, attacking Han Chinese and Uyghur civilian alike. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China
Now this is not to say that Uyghurs are terrorists, far from it. However, the fact of the matter is that all of the terrorists behind the attacks over the years have been from Uyghurs. A small proportion of people causing a problem for a lot more people, this is nothing new, and always causes political divide, because of the issues of addressing these perpetrators, and that people's brains often aren't capable of separating emotion and tribalism from facts and statistics. The CCP have been very heavy handed in dealing with these issues, in my view heavily overreacting in their measures, and often in very traditional and backward ways, however this does not mean that the government should have taken no action. I do not deny that it is likely they are detaining at least a few hundred or a few thousand Uyghurs, whether with criminal backgrounds or links to organisations is another issue. The issue is it may go too far (valid concern) and we may never know the truth (valid concern).

What we do know: the Chinese did not wage war in the Middle East. Similar violent movements in other countries would be similarly crushed, you can object to it all you want but that's how the world works, democracy/communist or not. And not it is not a case of whataboutism, it's a case of discerning whether or not you're a blistering hypocrite, who can apply a singular set of ideals and values to certain states and peoples and be 'outraged', but cannot do the same for others or their own. Isn't it funny that Xi Jin Ping and Putin are considered authoritarian caricatures yet the biggest caricature of all is still in the oval office?
The truth is all governments commit wrong, often to a minority, and the harsh truth of history is that the successes of every group of people has come at a cost to a group of others. See: every 'developed' nation. I agree with people fighting for their cause, but not so much people getting outraged at things they don't understand anything about. If you claim you care the same amount to every such problem in the world, then you're either a liar or a complete cretin.

I feel for the cultural erosion of the Uyghur people, that I believe Ughuyrs are a treasure to the world and to China, and I disagree with the overreactive CCP tactics in maintaining rigid order of their people. But I do not agree with the narrative that China is a nazi-like, warmongering genocidal state, and I maintain that claims of genocide are far fetched and without evidence. What happenned to the burden of proof. To conclude, the Chinese/Xinjiang/Ughuyr-Han issues are complex and multifaceted, and you're not going to get a complete picture if you A) Never been to Xinjiang (its not hard to visit pre-post corona) B) cannot speak/read/write Chinese or Uyghur C) Don't take into consideration political and historical context.

Also, if you cannot take some discourse without getting offended, then you probably shouldn't be engaging in this issue. Asking to delete my comment - I didn't know this was China ! No democracy or freedom! Haha!

who are u

30/9/2020 12:22:15 am

please reveal your true identity

Lol

30/9/2020 12:27:32 am

Classic - CCP apologists defending the CCP from every critique whenever possible

LOL

30/9/2020 12:34:31 am

Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.

30/9/2020 12:35:44 am

Zenz clearly is more credible than CCP.

30/9/2020 10:33:25 am

'people's brains often aren't capable of separating emotion and tribalism from facts and statistics'

oh the irony.

30/9/2020 08:13:59 am

Ofc i had heard of the atrocities committed against the Uyghur. I consider it a failure on my part that I have not educated myself further on it, spoken about it or even drawn parallels to the atrocities committed against our Indigenous people. Thank you for this piece.

30/9/2020 10:34:36 am

“Adrian Zenz” -

First of all, your assertion that no information can verify the persecution of Uyghurs beyond the claims of Adrian Zenz if flatly false. I’ve just googled this figure, and I agree, he’s a kook. However, simply look at the citations of any Amnesty or HRW article on this, and you’ll have your corroborating information. In addition to satellite imagery (which for some reason, you dismiss), dozens of written accounts from Uyghurs in East Turkistan corroborate the story. Need I remind you, too, of the harrowing drone footage of shaven and blind men being herded onto trains?

Secondly, your attempted first principles refutation of the possibility of mass imprisonment is similarly specious. Frankly, it makes me question your motives. As has already been pointed out, the Nazis were eminently capable of interring millions of people. China, with its enormous production capacity, and the added advantage of not being engaged in an apocalyptic war, must be assumed to be even more capable. As noted by the author of this article, the huge cost of the project is offset by forcing the detainees to manufacture clothing and other export products.

Thirdly, your implicit claim that China has some historic right to dominate the region is absurd. Yes, throughout history, various Chinese dynasties have occupied parts of the Eurasian Steppe. However, taking the greatest historical extent of an ancient state to draw modern borders ignores subsequent centuries of cultural and demographic development. It is an attitude akin to imperialism (also, China was for most of its history explicitly an empire).

That leads me to my fourth point, the notion that China is somehow a benevolent power, who would never threaten others. Without excusing for a moment the criminal wars of aggression waged by the West, most recently in the Middle East and North Africa, your comparison is ridiculous. Just because China has rarely had the power to project force far from its shores, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t do so. Are we to forget the Chinese occupation of Korea? The more recent invasion of Vietnam? Chinese military support to North Korea and the Khmer Rouge?

Finally, conflating an argument a critique of genocide with separatism, and then separatism with terrorism, is a low move I hardly need to touch on.

thank you

30/9/2020 10:50:53 am

Thank you for taking the time to refute that disturbing comment.

Srsly

30/9/2020 03:24:23 pm

“China, with its enormous production capacity, and the added advantage of not being engaged in an apocalyptic war” bro, did you ever studied the history of WWII.

Korea

30/9/2020 04:04:24 pm

“China’s occupation to Korea?” In 628BC, 918BC, 993BC, 1127BC, the 14 century, 1368BC or 1950? Could u be a bit more specific so we understand during which period of Korea’s long history it was occupied by China while not having its own king?

a professor

30/9/2020 04:34:00 pm

This is quality H1 evidence & proof exam paper

30/9/2020 04:52:59 pm

Thanks MF for the only attempt at a civilized response so far. I appreciate many of your arguments.

On the figure of 1-3 million Uyghurs detained that is thrown around:
- The point I was trying to make was that the amount of evidence available is alarmingly scarce and of poor quality
- HRW articles tend to has released detailed reports on certain CCP abuses and strategies targeting Uyghurs and surveillance, none of which I have denied
- The only source, that HRW, unfortunately states is exactly the papers I'm talking about written by Adrian Zenz. After weeks of searching, I could not find any additional evidence that confirms these estimates that did not cite or originate from the original Zenz papers.
See first reference, the only time they quote the figure: https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideological-viruses/chinas-campaign-repression-against-xinjiangs#_ftn1
-Satellite imagery shown by the original author and repeatedly used in articles are equally dubious being that they are just that, mere satellite images showing facilities, most of them resembling typical Chinese factories and industrial facilities. This is not proof of a containment facility.
- By extension the total amount of suspected imprisonment camps does not come anywhere capable of housing the near the purported 7 digit figures.

On China's capability of detaining these amounts: certainly possible, I agree. But it makes you question how physical evidence such as photography and footage, sheer scale and magnitude of the holocaust and the Nazi gas chambers are abundant, yet in the modern age of pocket photography and videos there's a strange lack of damning evidence (Xinjiang is free to visit for foreigners, again I reiterate), so you really have to reconcile how you can substantiate enormous claims of genocide and mass detainment in the millions relying SOLELY on undependable studies from limited authors that haven't been peer reviewed, and inconclusive satellite aerial imagery. Cost- wise, probably possible, but China doesn't have a shortage of workers.

I never emphasised China's 'historic right' to 'dominate' the region. I am asserting that Uyghurs and Han Chinese have been entangled for hundreds of years and are not a group of Turkic peoples that have suddenly been colonised by China. It also happens that Uyghurs have NOT been separated from the rest of China for the last 300 or so years (since the 1700's Qing Dynasty). That predates the inception of this nation.

This last paragraph I regret to say is quite ill-informed.
Ming China has historically had a strong navy and the complete capability to invade and conquer neighbours but did not go that far. Manchurian China occupied Korea in the early-mid 1600's under Qing rule but also recognized their independence decades later, and relinquished its position as a tributary state. The Korean people maintained diplomatic relations with China until the early 1900's which saw the forced annexation and occupation of Korea by Japan. I beg to differ the 'recent' (unless you mean in the 1600's) invasion of Vietnam, the Chinese aided North Vietnam against the US led South Vietnam. It was a civil war with vested interests a proxy ideological war, by any means China never wanted to invade or swallow Vietnam, they simply did not want to be have U.S military bases right at their doorstep. I never stated China was benevolent, simply not imperialistic, and certainly not to the degree that is the commonly held perception. You can tell just by analysing current world affairs - where the wars actually are occurring, and who is involved, not by buying into every headline.

30/9/2020 06:39:00 pm

'Adrian Zenz', thank you for your response.

Regarding the existence of the internment camps, I am frankly a little confused. Committee Secretary Chen Quanguo (the official in charge of the camps) has himself confirmed their existence, although he calls them 'vocational education facilities'.

Even if that were not the case, there are numerous primary source accounts of internment and forced labour. These of themselves constitute crimes against humanity, even leaving aside the allegations of genocide. This is one account from an ethnic Kazakh - a country not known for its sympathies to the West.

If you do not accept these sources, I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree. However, I would also note that until the Eastern Front collapsed, most Germans had no idea about the concentration camps. It took an enormous postwar public awareness campaign to shed light on the issue. I pray that the world is not once again too late in this instance.

It is fair to say you didn't claim a historic right to dominate the region. However, to claim that because Han Chinese have dominated the region for a long time, colonisation cannot be an ongoing occurrence, is not true. Australia was similarly colonised some three hundred years ago, and I think we all recognise the ongoing dispossession of First Nations People.

Regarding the Ming fleet, you are quite right, I was uninformed. A quick Google has revealed to me that the powerful Ming fleet allowed China to colonise parts of Indonesia and the Philippines, and to install a puppet ruler in Sri Lanka.

Regarding the other two points, it is not me who is misinformed. China only recognised the independence of Korea in 1895 - up until that point, Korea was an occupied vassal of the Qing. I was actually referring to the far more recent Sino-Vietnamese War, in which China invaded Vietnam to defend the atrocious Khmer Rouge. I concede, it was not a war of conquest, but it was certainly a war of aggression. It is comparable to how the West does not seek to conquer Afghanistan.

In any respect, I hope we can agree that if China /were/ seeking to erase the culture of an ethnic minority, and if China /were/ interning Uyghurs in camps, then these acts of evil would deserve condemnation. People can make up their own minds, on the evidence, as to whether this is occurring.

Genocide denial

30/9/2020 07:30:40 pm

Firstly, your claim that you can freely visit the region are outright lies. If you are Uyghur you cannot visit the region without fear of being locked up. Secondly, ALL journalists who have visited have said they are policed and minded throughout their visits, and also the UN Human Rights High Commissioner Michelle Bachelet has said that she hasn't had unfettered access to the region. The only camp visits allowed are highly choreographed. As well, one of the Economist articles linked here about the surveillance police state that has been created is the reporting of a journalist who was there and what he saw. It would be a bizarre line of attack for someone trying to give the veneer of reasonableness to their genocide denial to allege all of these highly reputable sources are somehow wrong or lying or you are more rigorous than they are. That would be truly bizarre and embarassing.

While your criticisms of Zenz may be true, they don't actually deal with his evidence and reporting which sources that have very high reporting standards, such as the Economist, UN bodies, and the Consortium of Investigative Journalists have agreed are probably right.

30/9/2020 08:20:09 pm

'MF'. Thanks for the insight.

I am not dissuading against the existence of the so called correctional facilities, but more suggesting that the size, scale and nature of these facilities are grossly overexaggerated with limited evidence. The Chinese government views them as a legitimate strategy, personally I find them wrong and disagreeable, and very typical example of, for lack of a better word, backward solution to their problem. And the red flag here is that yes, there is potential for this to go much worse and that indeed is a concern. However, at the current level, I do not believe it amounts to anything near genocidal in nature, nor do I believe they intend to persecute Uyghurs as a whole. Incorporation, probably. As for the labour, I do believe this is occurring, no disagreements there. Again, these aspects of Chinese governance need reformation, but it was in recent decades that penal labour was still legal in many western nations.

Your analogy about Indigenous dispossession is valid, yet I'd like to make these comparisons:
- Upon its invasion, Australia has relegated and diminished the Indigenous population by upwards of 80%, taking 300 years for the population to recover to similar levels
- Indigenous Australians have been uprooted and relegated to remote areas over time
- Uyghurs still maintain to be the most populous and significant (although evening out with Han Chinese more recently) group in Xinjiang
- Terra Nullius was still a thing until 1976
- Uyghurs as a Chinese minority group were generally well treated under Chinese rule until the Cultural Revolution, but government focus thereafter has been lax until the unrest in the last 2 decades, with them being afforded privileges such as exemption from the one child policy and extra marks for university admissions, recognizing extra paid religious holidays.
These ideas of colonisation are not exactly equal.

With Korea, you are correct, but that does not contradict what I said. China under Qing rule was Manchurian led and not Han Chinese led. For the most part of history Korea was a tributary or vassal state to China, but they always had their own King and were let to be.
As for Ming, I question your 'quick google' as the general directive over the Ming rule was against expansionism, and the concepts of Indonesia and Philippines did not exist back in that time, because they were under European colonialism in those centuries haha.
Forgive my wikipedia quote: "Following the collapse of Mongol Yuan dynasty and Mongolian retreat, the newly-established Ming dynasty was initially reluctant to embark on expansionism due to destruction left back by the Mongols. The first Ming Emperor, Hongwu, was openly against expansionism and insisted only on a pacifist approach.[25] He specifically warned future Emperors only to defend against foreign barbarians, and not engage in military campaigns for glory and conquest.[26] However, once Hongwu died, the reign of Yongle saw China attempted to return to expansionism, by launching an invasion to Vietnam, eventually leading to the fourth Chinese domination. However, the old warning by Hongwu turned to be a prediction, as Vietnam proved to be a bone on China's expansionism, eventually led to its eventual defeat in the Battle of Tốt Động – Chúc Động and the collapse of Chinese rule 20 years later.[27][28][29] Following the failure to re-annex Vietnam into China, the Ming dynasty started to concentrate only in internal affairs, and refused to make further interventions or expeditions, except for naval expeditions and trades."

As for Khmer Rouge, I concede in that aspect, China aided them motivated by fear of Soviet influence and increasing Soviet relations with Vietnam, however I would question whether the Chinese attacks at the time can really be classified as anything more than a temporary attack rather than prolonged occupation. Yes, the US did not seek to conquest Afghanistan but they didn't have their backyards across the fence either.

I can definitely agree that if the Chinese government were aiming for the complete eradication of the Uyghur people and their culture that indeed be worthy of condemnation. Imprisonment without cause also definitely is an evil, and on a lesser degree penal labour, but again there are many shades of grey following that which may fall into targeted punitive measures, which I believe is the area of reality at current. Alarming it is, scrutiny it does deserve, but I think you will find most current reports being extremely embellished, and to that I would ask, if you cannot establish a certain degree of investigative rigour how can you identify the true issues let alone a solution to the problem.

30/9/2020 08:51:45 pm

@Genocide Denial
Adrian Zenz isn't just a problematic character, he is espousing problematic evidence - the lynchpin every accusation relies on.

Zenz published a study unearthing the shocking news that “80% of all sterilizations in China are performed in Xinjiang.
The truth is that Zenz is talking about contraception, not sterilization, and the very document Zenz relies on and cites shows that Xinjiang only contributes 8.7% of the total IUDs performed in China.
"In 2014, 2.5 percent of newly placed IUDs in China were fitted in Xinjiang. [38] In 2018, that share rose to 80 percent, far above Xinjiang’s 1.8 percent share of China’s population. [39]"
Zenz article: https://web.archive.org/web/20200629192118/https://jamestown.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Zenz-Internment-Sterilizations-and-IUDs.pdf?x60014
Citation:
https://preview.redd.it/xkytzc0iuna51.png?width=1425&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f9b19dd2f0fb0b2e1bf531faac00feaed397664
I do not assume you will bother to investigate or analyse this evidence as this goes contrary to your beliefs, but if you are interested in more details I am happy to provide.

No official UN bodies never confirmed the 1-3 million Uyghur detainment.

If you mean 'World Uyghur Congress', then here's a laugh for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8uZZjB4kfM
President Kanat is shown to be not very confident when making statements regarding where their source came from, which he then resorts to saying that the number is provided by “some western media.” Keep in mind that the WUC is what a significant amount of articles cite when addressing the issue of detainee numbers. WUC is also affiliated with the NED (National Endowment for Democracy), the NGO that receives funding directly from CIA.

It is not bizarre to say that these institutions are wrong when I have laid the evidence plain and bare in front of you - yet you are arguing is for the authority of institutions that you have put all your faith in. The US government was also widely regarded as a credible source for all things good until recently. The Economist these days is on the same level as VICE for credibility. Do a bit of digging to see who these organisations are funded by.

Anonymous

30/9/2020 02:54:05 pm

Why the comments I heard from other Uyghurs are quite different lol.
Anyways, it's a good article! Thanks a lot, that's thought-provoking.

30/9/2020 03:17:26 pm

As a Chinese myself, I have to say that the XinJiang issue is an extremely difficult one concerning the cultural differences, etc.
Conflicts as a result of religions sometimes can be quite intractable if it goes to an extreme.
Good causes can lead to bad ends, it applies to both the extremists and the government side.
I would not think it as a legal issue, but more like a philosophical/ethical one? Of course, if you think it as a legal one, it would definitely give you an answer that the Govt is absolutely wrong lol.

Given the context that terrorism has been a threat to citizens living there, which approach should be adopted as a decision-maker in order to maintain peace and order in that place? The answer would be different if you see yourself as a decision-maker or if you see yourself as a Human Rights activist for the minorities. And if you are a Human Rights activist, how about the human rights of people living under threat from the separatism and terrorism? Like I've said, the approaches will be different depending on your roles lol.

I generally agree that the government power should be limited, that's the major issue.
This is actually a very complex issue, and no proper answer to this.
Anyways, it is good to see that these articles provide arguments on both sides!

You are joking

30/9/2020 04:00:14 pm

If you're running concentration camps, then I think you lose the human rights argument pretty much by default.

30/9/2020 04:11:38 pm

It's really about a trolley problem issue.
We all know it's wrong by default, but how to manage it is a huge question in detail.

30/9/2020 04:32:15 pm

Actually I asked one of my Uyghur friends about the camp. She said she knows one of her friends went there to pick up manicure skills.
The situation may be different for different people.
Anyways, who knows the true answer. If you insist it's wrong then defend for yourselves.
No hard feelings. Keep searching for truth and humanity is the pursuit of all human beings.

Be fair

30/9/2020 04:08:32 pm

Han now constitute 50% of Xinjiang’s population, guess it won’t be a treat for them to find their family be boomed on the streets.

Learn the definition of genocide

1/10/2020 02:17:02 pm

If uyghurs are having genocide committed on them or sterilised by the CCP then how did their population go from 3 million in 1949 to 12 million today?

Interesting question

1/10/2020 03:01:07 pm

As I'm trying to figure out the comparative cultures between China and Western countries, I found that given different cultural context, people would see a certain object from the angle which is more likely to reflect their understandings of their own culture. We perceive in a way familiar to us. When people familar with western history heard of this camp, they can think of the Nazi, etc. Well, chinese counterparts honestly would not think things in that way. And probably the reality is far from our imagination depending on the lens we perceive things. We saw a thing first and then draw our own conclusions from our own past experience without realising that the experiences are different for different backgrounds.

I pay more attention to how people of different backgrounds react to this issue. It's really interesting to see the cultural differences and how they affect people's reaction. This article and the comments section provoke more thoughts on this point. Good to see this!

Comments are closed.

شەرقىي تۈركىستان (East Turkestan)

Archives