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  • Blog

Stuff We Applied for and Did Not Get

23/5/2017

 
LORAINE MACDONALD, SOPHIE KAIKO and MADELEINE LLOYD

Vol 11, Issue 12
​
It’s almost that time of year again. There are networking events all over the joint (oh hai free alcohol just lying around!), and daily pangs of anxiety from seeing everyone else in a suit and wondering which memo you’ve missed this time. The spectre of clerkship/ summer vac applications looms over the entire law building, whether you’re applying for them or not. Knowing that there are a smaller number of clerkships/ other vacation work opportunities than there are students in this building unfortunately makes application season a competitive time that can lead us to compare ourselves to our peers and feel as though we’ve come up short.
Picture
By way of procrastination on a fine sunny day, your correspondents found themselves on the grass discussing jobs/ scholarships/ etc. we were applying for, and then sharing the even larger number of things we had applied for in the past and been rejected from. Turns out, while we knew all about each other’s achievements, we had no idea that everyone had had so many rejections and disappointments. Even from a sample size of 3 (we’ll leave those with science backgrounds to work out the statistical significance), hearing that others had experienced an equally large number of failures in their time at MLS made each of us realise that our experiences were not unique, and we all agreed that our past disappointments would not have made us feel so inadequate at the time had we known how common they were.


So, in the spirit of opening up more of these conversations, we have gone through our hard drives, found all (or most of) our applications, and compiled the following list of times we’ve experienced that sweet sting of rejection in the last 2.5 years. The purpose of highlighting these failures is not to complain (those who did get these opportunities undoubtedly deserved them!), but rather to acknowledge that failure is a huge part of the experience at law school, and that when we publicise our successes and hide our failures we create a culture of unrealistic expectations.


Sophie’s List
Work things:
  • 5 paralegal positions that I never heard back from at all;
  • Research assistant for a lawyer in the city who I knew lots about and really liked (didn’t even get an interview);
  • Volunteering position at 2 local Community Legal Centres that I never heard back from;
  • Advertised paralegal positions for 1 sole practitioner, 2 barristers, and 1 boutique firm (interviewed for, but did not get);
  • 1 international summer work scheme which I was rejected from after the final interview.
Law School things:
  • Postgraduate tutor and editing position with vague law connection;
  • Global Lawyer and International Institutions subjects 2015;
  • STS tutoring position 2017.


Madeleine’s List
Work Things:
·       A three-month internship in a Victorian government department;
·       Cold-call applications to about 8 employment law firms in Melbourne (no response from any);
·       5/10 public service graduate positions applied for to date (mostly through being knocked out at the online testing stage);
·       Advertised legal assistant position for employment law barrister (no response);
·       2 advertised paralegal positions working for work-from-home vaguely commercial sounding firm (no response);
·       Advertised call centre job at large national law firm (no interview);
·       All commercial summer clerkships I applied for (which included two top-tier firms, one mid-tier firm, one rather large lefty firm, and one government organization)
Law School things:
·       a CSP place at MLS (omfg someone said that out loud?);


Loraine’s List:
Work things:
  • Overseas summer vacation program (knocked out at the online testing phase);
  • Summer vacation position at a financial service firm (got all the way through to final partner interview, then got rejected);
  • At least 15-20 (this is not an exaggeration I swear, there are around this many cover letters saved in my computer, and there were a bunch of others that only required a CV so I have no record of them) applications for jobs advertised on the careers website;
  • One paralegal job that I actually got an interview for, and then was unsuccessful;
  • Job at the law school that I interviewed for and then was unsuccessful;
  • At least 6 applications (again, this is how many cover letters I could find in my computer) for legal volunteer positions that I never received responses from;
  • Volunteer consultant role at a student run organisation.
Law school things:
  • Admin assistant at MULR (sorry MJIL, I swear this was before we were exclusive!);
  • LSS co-op position (2016);
  • STS tutor 2016 and 2017;
  • Facilitated study group leader 2016.




BUT, as much as some of these rejections really got us down at the time, we have also had some really fun and exciting experiences at law school! Even though there is probably a hit rate of one success to every 10 rejections, the successes have absolutely made it all worth it.
  • This building is full of highly competent and driven people all applying for a very small number of opportunities – we can’t all succeed all of the time. Hopefully what we can do, however, is be a little more open about those things that we didn’t succeed in so that we don’t have to feel alone in our failures. So please don’t feel alone when you get those rejections. We have literally all been there. So many times. Have a cry to your friends/ mum/ dog, pick yourself up, and move on to the next thing. Because, statistically speaking, the next success is likely to be only another 10 rejections away!

​Sophie, Madeleine and Lorraine are third-year JD students

More articles like this
  • Not everything has to make sense
  • The seven stages of clerkships


The rest of this issue
  • On Leaving the Law School
  • Coming Face to Face with Mr Adler
  • A History of the Split Profession​
  • How to Win Clerkships and Alienate Failure


Metaphor man
23/5/2017 10:19:18 am

I try to think of the whole applications thing like fishing to stop myself feeling down when i am inevitably rejected.

You wouldn't get depressed or angry at a fish for not taking the bait, it would be futile, it's just a dumb fish. What you can do is ask if you're fishing in the right waters or with the right bait, make adjustments accordingly, and then be patient. So it goes with employers.

*disclaimer; I have never fished a day in my life

Henry
23/5/2017 12:41:39 pm

Well done for writing this!
Really good perspective :)

LIKE
24/5/2017 12:11:21 am

Oliver
24/5/2017 10:56:33 am

Perhaps we should also ask ourselves whether the bounties of the sea have all dried up from over-fishing!

Denning LJ
23/5/2017 02:38:49 pm

Thanks for this article! It is so easy to get lost in other people's success here...

Non
23/5/2017 06:54:48 pm

Fabulous article, beautiful honesty

Henry HL
23/5/2017 07:21:39 pm

Yeah I got rejected by every firm I applied to clerk at in 2015, and every firm but one I applied to clerk at in 2016.

It was very funny.

Impartial observer
24/5/2017 03:17:21 pm

That's a huge indictment of the quality of HR at Melbourne law firms.

Agree
25/5/2017 11:41:08 am

Sarah
23/5/2017 07:35:02 pm

You guys are amazing. I love this!

Chantelle
23/5/2017 08:51:32 pm

Oh my gosh the CSP comment, gold! Great work guys :-)

Jacob Debets
23/5/2017 09:19:10 pm

- 9 firms I applied to clerk at in 2016
- to be a research assistant at MLS in 2014
- every paralegal job I've ever applied for
- internship at the Department of Premier and Cabint in 2014
- internship at the VLRC (applied 2014, 2015 and 2016, never got an interview)
- social justice internship at DLA Piper (twice)

You are absolute gems
24/5/2017 12:09:53 am

1 FWO call centre
2 legal secretary
2 Unimelb admin
6 clerkships

Colleen
24/5/2017 12:24:51 am

Thanks for sharing Loraine, Sophie and Madeleine - this is a timely reminder to maintain perspective and appreciate our fortunes in the face of disappointment.

We are definitely not alone:

https://www.princeton.edu/~joha/Johannes_Haushofer_CV_of_Failures.pdf

Samantha
24/5/2017 02:08:57 pm

Good on all of you for sharing your stories!

I can't remember how many things that I have applied for where I got rejected. The most memorable ones were:

A clerkship at Maurice Blackburn
Paralegal positions at various boutique firms
Research assistant with a barrister

The experience was the same when I moved to Sydney. But when I cold called a firm, I was lucky enough to be called in to do a placement with them for College of Law. After a week, the firm took me on as an employee

Best of luck to all of you! Don't let any of those rejections get you down.

Wait For the Shot
24/5/2017 07:04:09 pm

Sometimes, by not taking the shot, you can move into a better position, and increase your odds of making the shot that you do take.

Consider the following
24/5/2017 09:13:11 pm

That metaphor doesn't really work though. You aren't really any worse off for having tried and failed than if you never tried at all.

Unless whatever you are applying for has a 'if we already rejected you don't apply again' policy, it is better to try because there is at least a chance of success, whereas if you don't try there is 0 chance of success.

Loraine
25/5/2017 11:51:45 am

To 'WAIT FOR THE SHOT' - while I agree that in some cases you do need to weigh up opportunities against each other (i.e. where applying for one may preclude you from applying for another), I also think that you generally put yourself in the best position by putting yourself out there as much as possible!


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